Wars of the Mediterranean for c3c

[the_Monarch]

Ok I agree with you on the wargalley arguement. It's only supposed to be a trireme for the Eastern civs, including Phoenicia and Persia. They were made of strong cedar wood so they were somewhat better. But since Carthage had both of them and still employed trieres, I lowered it to 3.3.6 with a bonus hitpoint over trieres (+3hp). That way they are still stronger on defense but more expensive and have a lower attack.

I've also tried playing on DEBUG and quit for the same reason. I concluded you guys will be the best debuggers and I was right. Thnx for that . I hope I got rid of most of the bugs. From what you told me wolfman, my attempt worked like a charm. Camps are especially there for ZOC. Until you kill em they'll kill your garrisons. It's quite realistic if you think of it, you can't conquer a country until you eliminate all resistance. That's why we still speak a Latin language here in the middle of the Slavs . Leaving the joke aside, all Barbarian nations, Including the Germans, Gauls, Scythians and even Africans have camps to protect them from too early conquests. They weren't always an exterior threat but they were hard to conquer. I'll put some camps for Persia too ensure they make it to the Parthian Age before you smash all those too expensive Immortals to bits. My goal is to make things hard (but fun) for you .

Sorry about the alliances. There's nothing I can do. If you want the Punic wars never to take place, or If you want Persia and Macedon to be buddies, you go ahead and change em. But since I can't put everybody's stance to everybody except through locked alliances, I decided they have to stay.

Now, jimmygeo, point:
1 Persia is not that hard to play with. Only actual threat comes from the West. True it comes hard if it's a human player, but AI probably will spread so you should reach the Parthian Cavalry long before Romans reach Imeprial Age. Then nobody would stop you.
2 They should. Samnites kicked their sorry Roman ass! Humans should feel tingles also!
3 Barbarians only prevent too hasty expansion from "border" civs. They were there in real times too!
4 Already solved the wargalley

It's true, Macedonia didn't invade Persia till Alexander but Persians swept through Macedonia several times. And I told you, I really can't alter any diplomacy whatsoever except for those controversial locked alliances. In fact, if you look at it more carefully, locked alliances don't provoke any unhistorical conflicts, only prevent some (Carthage never battled Persia or Phoenicia). But if you come up with something, please let me know. I wanted to get rid of them too but I didn't find anything to replace em with.

 

[wolfman1234]

I continue thinking that the samnites are a candy given to the romans, they enslave all that easy barbs too soon, at least if roman is human. With that initial army of 6-8 legions from the beginning they are unstopable.

I am seeing as macedonian how while i conquer crappy cities in anatolia they have all italy, half Gallia and half Spain. And the year is only 390 BC.

I wont have nothing better than the Phalangites i think and they will kick my ass with their next 2 eras units, consular and imperial legions.

 

[skovac]

I'm still playing Romans and Germans really helped me: as they declared war on me they sent out WAVES of tribal warriors that made a good cannon fodder for my iron legions and strenghtened my ranks - so maybe changing the attack AI settings for weak units like slingers and tribals to defence or explore will prevent this raising of power (really I lost just 1 legion and gained some 10+)
Must admit that Greeks started to smash between themselves and left Persia be, as Persians left them. Must be some way to force them to clash

 

[wolfman1234]

Starting a new game as egyptian with the new patch(1.21).

There is typo somewhere that gives this error:

art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\templemearlarge.pcx instead of the existing templearmelarge.pcx i think.

 

[jimmygeo]

How does one get Rome to attack Carthage or Macedonia to attack Persia with armies if they cannot use heavy transports which will only carry tactical nukes (=Greek fire)? This also applies to the merchant ships which will not load anything but tac. nukes. The game engine will not allow you to load both nukes and other units on the same vessel.

jimmygeo

 

[skovac]

Must agree with that tactical nukes-you rally cant load any unit on the transport, has to be changed
and also is the speed of birems intended to be 2, it seems too low

 

[wolfman1234]

I think i have found some of the errors related to transports. Heavy transport and merchant ship have the transport missile skill, while heavy galleys and war galleys have transport infantery skill. Perhaps should be changed.

 

[the_Monarch]

I've tested the carry missile and carry foot units ability on another scenario and it seems to have worked. But I guess the only units you could load into such a ship would have to have BOTH the abilities. So I had to choose either give all units the tactical missile ability or simply transport Greek Fire with other kind of ships, like Dromons. I chose the last alternative. I did leave the carry footunits ability for Galleys. If you want to carry Elephants across the sea you shouldn't relly on a reeds galley, I guess. Heavy transports are the only ships able to carry fully loaded armies.

Also checked the templemealarge.pcx bug. Hope there aren't any more.

Patch 1.22 removed after 30 views.

 

[wolfman1234]

The problem was that transports have no infantery transport skill, and the galleys have no missile skill(in 1.21), i dont know if you understood me.

Another suggerence, while ai dont do nothing with the romans, you can easily conquer all world, its great that you have to upgrade your latin infantery, but should cost money, now cost is 0. And perpahs no slinger should be available to all roman neighbours or celts or whatever(or at least make them only use in defence, not sending them agaisnt the romans), ai launch "thousand" of that kind of units agaisnt roman armies, creating for them most of their latin infantery. Its a nonsense unit, instead of aiding the barb civs, only do roma greater.

Another thing i found when i played the egiptyans, the guardsman cost 2 population, while carthague guardsman dont have pop cost and can slave units.

Continue the great work, monarch.

 

[the_Monarch]

Well I think I understood finally that although units can have more than just one ability (can be both tactical, aerial and/or footunits), a transport will carry these units only if it has ALL these transporter flags on (carry footunits AS WELL as missile units). BUT (there is always a big BUT) a transporter that carries missiles will carry ONLY units with this flag checked. I seemed to have omitted the last part before.

So now, dromons, catapult tetraremes and castleships are the only units that carry Greek Fire (and nothing else). Warships generally carry only infantry whereas armies, cavalry (incl elephants and camels) and siege engines will require transports (merchant ships, heavy transports and longships - barbarians got to have something to move their armies too!

Well in the 1.22 version Germans and Gauls can't even train slingers. Only Iberians can. They are a very weak militia unit when NO resources (like copper, iron or tin) are available. I've made the road infrastructure wider so less cities will build these sorts of bacward units. Since you insisted, I put the slinger AI only to defense. There shouldn't be any anyway . The tribal warrior is a militia unit for the Germans that doesn't need any resources. It also will be used only on defensive status although it has a 2.1.2 (originally I thoguht the A.I. will control it as a regular warrior in c3c which is also set on offense as default but it seems you never can tell. They should become obsolete in the Hellenistic Age anyway...

Latin Infantry is very cheap now (only 40 so you spend money to upgrade to Legions). Egyptians are decadent in this scenario. Their units are mostly for defense.

Egyptian Guardsmen are earlier and better than Carthaginian Guardsmen but they cost a lot more. The concept of Elite units (like Hoplites, Argyraspis, Sacred Band, Immortals, Praetorians, Elephants, etc.) means that these units are obviously better than normal units, most of the time they even receive bonus HP's but they are RARE. So they cost pop. Sometimes as much as 3 people so you don't build them all the time. The Sacred Band was only a squad of some hundred elite homosexual paired fanatics! So Egyptian Royal Guardsmen are not the same with Carthaginian ones.

The enslaved workers of Carthage are the only way to simulate their sacrificial habits. Egyptians derived their culture from building monuments rather than sacrifice. But if you like the enslave worker ability and since Guardsmen are elite units AND since you will probably need those workers to work the plains of the Nile and so on, I gave the Egyptian Guardsman the enslave worker ability too. Also gave them a greater attack of 5 but it's still not the best offensive unit. Try this version instead wolfman. And tell us if you like it.

 

[wolfman1234]

lol, That were only some sugerences Monarch, hehe. I will never build units that cost pop besides elephans and elite offensive units for armies.

And yes, the hordes of slingers are spanish now, they only build slingers until they can build brigantine pirates, a good unit.

I will try 1.23 with macedonians, athenians, spartans and pontians if i can set a hot seat game. For see if the greeks can rule the world.

For the games i have tried, none more than 150 turns, the romans are very very strong, the carthage ones very feeble, the macedonians right for play (above all for that alexander wonder) and the egiptians too, they have the best land as in all ancient scenarios.

EDITED: A pity, only 8 players in hotseat.

 

[the_Monarch]

Well I did feel I made the Carthaginians some injustice. But only a little. They were primarily sailors and were no match for the Romans on land. Romans were too "bloodthirsty" as most historians would put it. In the game, Carthage starts with quite a lot of cities and only distant enemies. Money rushes in for the oligarchy, Libyan mercs have hidden identity AND they can pop up slaves for culture. Besides, the Elephants are great! Earlier and better than legions, to be honest but more expensive. (10.4.2 +1HP!)

Elites costing pop means the A.I. would use them in lesser numbers. I hate an all elephant army when they were really just shock troops. Besides I think the idea might just work for human players too. When you have a city growing rapidly you might want to "invest some pop". I've been playing WH2 as Sylvania (not because of Vlad (Carnstein where did this come from?? ) but because I absolutely adore the Scientific and Militaristic combo. Besides, the Undead Sylvanians have very cheap, no maintenance skeleton units that cost 1 pop each. It's well worth it in my opinion. It's like drafting or hurrying with pop but there is no unhappiness. Some really cool units cost just 15 shields ! And when you have to subdue a huge rebellious conquered city very distant to your capital this is the best alternative. Like training a worker! Thnx for the mod Mr. Do.

Anyway, Meditera is a bit different. Elite units cost lots of shields too. But the idea is that you might want to try building them anyway. Instead of supporting two lwo cost but ineffective units (one of them dying always to sften the attack) you might want some elites who will "endure" more damage and even get more promotions! Just a tip, but if you play the Greeks and don't train any hoplites, I don't think you stand a chance. And those Iberians should build brigantian rangers right from the start if they have tin! Dumb A.I.

 

[jimmygeo]

Monarch - Version 1.23 is quite an improvement, but I still have some questions. The Theban Hoplite has a transport capacity of one and the "transports only aircraft" flag set. There were aircraft then???? What's the scoop with this? Also, as I am currently playing as the Macedonians, how is it that Macedon starts with Sarissaphoroi when it doesn't have the techs necessary to build them? (Also the wonder Alexander's Phalanx).

On the possitive side (?) Rome has not conquered Italy and it's already past turn 50. In fact, they have just managed to hold Central Italy after a war with Etruria.

jimmygeo

 

[the_Monarch]

Well the Thebans are not supposed to use ANY transports. That's why. It's an algoritm so you won't be able to load them unto any ship. Why? Because it's unhistorical. There are no air units so this shouldn't be any problem. You shouldn't even have seen this unless you peeped in the editor . Macedonia starts with just a few Sarissophoroi. They have to have something against the Greek hoplites. However before they can train more they will not be that deadly.

Alexander Phalanx is there just to make sure Macedonia builds it and not somebody else. I worked out how to make the A.I. build the Colossus and Mausoleum precisely in the apropriate cities even if owned by somebody else by that time, but didn't want to take chances with Alexander's Phalanx.

Probably I should mention that I made a last minute update to v1.23. I only gave the Carthaginian Guardsman 6 def and made it cost 1 pop. I figured they had to have something in defense too.

 

[wolfman1234]

The transport aircraft thing is a flag used for non-transportable units, but not only for Theban Hoplite, the spartan one cant load in ships neither.

The more fun play until now, a real challenge, Lacedemon, and if you want a bit easy, Macedonia.

 

[Mirc]

Nu pot sa o downloadez! Nu stiu ce are acea pagina, dar cursorul mouse-ului meu se strica cand intru pe ea si nu pot sa accesez nici un link de acolo!

(I can't download it! I don't know what's happening with that page at FileFactory, it is doing something with my cursor, and I can't acces any link from there!)

 

[the_Monarch]

Well after you wait for the link to appear, you should click "Don't want a premium download? Click here to access our free download links." and then, when it appears the third option, marked "FileFactory HTTP -- Click here to download". This should work for everybody. The first two options are ftp and p2p and might have some problems with your firewall or something.

 

[Sharon]

I can't DL this either. Why not link the mod directly to this site?

 

[the_Monarch]

I can't DL this either. Why not link the mod directly to this site?

Well unfortunatelly nobody will host it here (at least nobody that I know of ).
I looked pretty hard for a place to store this 168mb mod and found it a filefactory.com. I pm'd you some download tips. If anybody has any problems downloading let me know. The basic is that you chose the FileFactory HTTP -- Click here to download option which should work for everyone, but if it doesn't work for you be sure to let me know. I might even mail it to you until I find a better solution .

 

[lchall]

I just tried to DL the first 55mb zip file. The DL was very slow and crapped out after DLing only 5.5mb in 10 minutes. Please let me know if there is a way to speed up and complete a DL. Thanks.