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Wars of the Mediterranean for c3c

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by the_Monarch, Jan 11, 2006.

?

So you, like,

  1. loved this creation, seen very much effort in it

    57.8%
  2. liked it but i've seen better

    17.8%
  3. think it needs some work here and there

    22.2%
  4. believe it wasn't worth the time

    2.2%
  1. the_Monarch

    the_Monarch annointed and crowned

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    Sorry Mirc, to make Meditera work for PTW would mean to take it all over again unfortunatelly.
     
  2. wolfman1234

    wolfman1234 Chieftain

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    Hmmm..i think heavy transports cant transport nothing, i have seen in the editor they only can transport missiles.

    As for the roman war machine, in 430 BC i have destroyed Etruria, Iberia and Carthague, and no more becouse i dont continue, with only 1 or 2 legions at start, you can end with 4 or 5 fighting the samnite barbarians, and with that its really easy conquer all north of italy, and perhaps the greeks on the south too.
     
  3. skovac

    skovac Chieftain

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    ups,I missed that greeks have separate alliances-that can be:D
    but still Rome is in war with Persia-don't think these two states even knew of each other, met and fought only their parthian descendents

    the inhabitants of Italy (south of Padua river) gain the roman citizenship after the "allies wars" (don't know how it is called in english) in 88 BC, and only citizens were allowed to serve in legions-as far I know:p

    well, in my game last etrurian stronghold standed till 474 BC, if my calculations are right (1 turn=1year), i think it should last to 396 BC... so i'm a bit quick:lol: now moving my legions south to "liberate" rest of the peninsula, but i've got such a great relationship with greeks that i feel sad it will end:sad: .still i dont give them long life, as i know how crappy units they have there.

    OK, i'll change my slaves to auxillary and twist the alliances a bit(hope you dont have the copyright;) )
     
  4. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Ok, but why don't you answer the PM?
     
  5. skovac

    skovac Chieftain

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    Found some more technical mistakes: missing wnder splash for heroic sagas, will cause crash; some unit movements arent set right (consular legion with movement 5? faster than Huns:) ). All for now.
    BTW. whats PM:confused:
     
  6. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Private Message
     
  7. Stormrage

    Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster

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    Top right corner of the screen
     
  8. jimmygeo

    jimmygeo Chieftain

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    I noticed the same thing. I edited the PediaIcons.txt file to correct it. A copy of my (new) file is attached

    jimmygeo
     

    Attached Files:

  9. jimmygeo

    jimmygeo Chieftain

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    Thanx for the good words, Monarch. I have played 60+ turns (down to the 420s) as Rome and am just smokin'! :) I joined with the Athenians, Spartans and Macedonians to destroy the Etruscans in short order, but most of their towns got destroyed, only gained about four of their cities, including Clusium with its very productive Pottery Works. Later the Athenians and then the Spartans declared war on me (bad move on their part ;) ) and so I was able to gain not only all of Italy but also Syracuse and Massilia. I was also able to take all of Corsica and Sicily and the Gallic town of Lugdunum. Historically this is WAY too fast. I'm ready to attack Carthage on their home turf and it isn't even the Punic Age yet.

    Possibly, reducng the cost of techs does speed up the game too much. It might be better, more balanced, to keep the high cost and limit the max. number of turns to 36 - 40 for each tech. As it is with the lower cost, I'm now researching a new tech every 6 to 8 turns!

    There's also an error for the transport and heavy transport ships. The .biq lists them as "transports only tactical nukes" which can hardly be right. Also, the Mercenary Army wonder allows the building of Latin Infantry, which upgrade to Legion, but since Rome starts with Legions, this wonder really does nothing. It might be better if either Latin Inf. upgraded to Consular Legions or the wonder produced a Latin Inf. every 5 to 10 turns.

    Just some suggestions. I uploaded a corrected PediaIcons.txt file to prevent the WON_SPLASH_BLDG_HEROIC_SAGAS crash.

    This is an awesome mod and still my favourite. Thanks for all your work in producing it.

    jimmygeo
     
  10. the_Monarch

    the_Monarch annointed and crowned

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    Wow, I've only been away for a couple of days and you guys really played a lot! Thnx for the suggestions. I'll see what I can do. I hate to say that I told you so about the tech costs. The new patch will have a max 36 turns limit for smaller civilizations. But the costs will remain the original. Thnx for the Pediaicons.txt Since you posted it, I'll just add a link to it on the top of the screen. No jimmygeo, the Mercenary Army wonder allows half unit upgrade costs and healing in enemy territory, not the building of Latin Infantry. True I missed out on the consular Legion movt. It should be 2. Editing 222 units might leave some gaps here and there.

    The main problem I see here is that everybody conquered Italy at least 100 years too soon :cry: . I mean, if I raise the cost of the legion, it doesn't matter all that much cause you'll get them from enslaving. It only has a 30% chance of enslaving and I'd lower it if I could, but I can't. Also if I make the Legion less good at attack it might make it worthless. This is real fine tunning here. So I'll try lowering the number of Legions in Rome and increasing those in Etruria and Greece. And Legions is the least of the problems here. Nobody tried playing Macedon (or didn't write any tales here). The Hypaspist has a 7 attack It should run through Persia like mad (as it did), but imagine the Macedonians trying to conquer Dacia instead (Dacians probably only have the 7.3.2 falxman by then until they hire their own Thracian mercs). And all these problems seem to be because most cities are not connected to resources so as to avoid huge movement of troops so early in the game. Most infantry has 2 points cause it's stupid to say a unit can only march 200 miles in a year on roads, especially later on in the game. I'll connect most of the cities with roads then, put more defensive units in border cities and hope for the best. Greek hoplites are still better on defense than legions but are way more expensive so I doubt Rome will take Greece till the consular legion in the Punic Age. Same with Macedon. But I have to cut the Gauls and Germans some slack here. Gauls have oppidum, they might just make it, after all they start with many cities and a fertile area (Rome has just 2). The Germans have slightly better yet later units than the Gauls. I'll probably raise some German unit defense/attack early in the Game. That beeing said, I'll release a new patch pretty soon to fix things. Keep posting everybody, I'll read it.
     
  11. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    Nice mod, the_Monarch. I noticed some of my units in there, which is great ;) ! I'm going to steal some stuff from this mod for my own - you've some good resources and tech icons that I've not seen before...
    Onto the mod; obviously, it would be good to get a better civilopedia; clearly you've downloaded AD, you'll find that there's quite a few descriptions of the various techs in particular (as a lot of them are the same) in my civilopedia, which shouldn't take you too long (I hope ;) ) to transfer into yours.
    Overall, it's good stuff. Looking forward to playing it a bit more :) .
     
  12. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Now I have C3C!!! I will play it!!!!

    You still didn't answer my PM, but now it's not important any more.
     
  13. the_Monarch

    the_Monarch annointed and crowned

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    Hi there R8XFT! Thnx for making Anno Domini. Very cool and thorough modpack. A lot of my graphics come from there and I'd like to thank you for it. Also I've taken some graphics from TAM, RAR, RFRE and countless other small sources. Tech icons are mostly done by me (those that I couldn't find) and all leaderheads. Help yourself to anything you like. Also if anyone could help me, I'd like to replace the cumbersome Leonardo Tank graphic for the camp with something to resemble more or less a generic village. I've made a pcx and have tried flicster and flicedit to turn it into a flc. Everything seemed right and the flc is good but when i loaded it in the game, it crashed. Here are both of them, see if they can help you make a unit out of them. If you have something better, feel free to post it yourself here.

    Oh and here's was the new patch1.2zip. Deleted for becoming obsolete. Check v1.22. I'll work on the civilopedia someday...
     
  14. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    I don't think I can help at the moment with the "camp" unit; however, I am making some new units for my expansion pack that you might want to use in a future patch - watch this space for details!
    I have to mention that my own preference for leaderheads is 3d animated, though it's not everyone's choice and sure does increase the size of the download. I'm changing all the leaderheads for 3d ones on my own pc though.
     
  15. jimmygeo

    jimmygeo Chieftain

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    I've been playing an edited version just like this and it seems to be working so far (ca. 60 turns).

    No problem. The change was only one line (Epic -> Heroic_Sagas)

    My mistake! I see that I should have said 'Scale Armor'. When I researched this tech, I still couldn't build Latin Infantry as I already had their upgrade, the Legion. I modified the .biq to make Latin Inf. u/g to Consular Legion in stead and now I can build Lat. Inf.


    I have only been able to conquer Italy (as Rome) because other civs (e.g. Spartans, Athens and Macedon) also declared war on Etruria and I allied with them. Then Athens and later Sparta declared war on me once I had built the Military Academy - Fatal for them :D But it still takes some skill and a lot of luck to conquer all of Italy before 400 BC. If you reduce the number of Legions or make them less powerful, you'll have to give Rome at least another city. One of the reasons that historically Rome took so long the conquer Italy was internal unrest (the revolt of the plebs and working out the system of republican government) and I don't know how this can be simulated. A savvy player, knowing his history, will slow down research to increase entertainment making disorder less likely and still be able to dominate Italy early. And I say "So what?" It WAS possible for Rome to do this anyway.

    Well, that's my two (and a half) cents' worth, for what it's worth.

    Still my favorite ancient mod (Anno Domini and TAM run close seconds).

    jimmygeo
     
  16. the_Monarch

    the_Monarch annointed and crowned

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    I still don't see why should the Romans build Latin Infantry, jimmygeo. Maybe Legions should enslave Latin Infantry instead of other Legions but that probably won't be necessary as I've disbanded almost a quarter of the units I gave Rome initially and gave some more to Etruria and Hellas. They should be happy to survive till 400 B.C. not conquer anything ;) .

    About the camp unit, my flc of it and an original pcx are located in the original meditera/art/units/camp1 folder. I just don't see what's wrong with the flc. The palette maybe? Oh and the heavy transports should work fine. Tactical missile carrier means they are heavy enough to carry Greek Fire Pots as well as any other unit including a fully loaded army (using 5 slots when upgraded). To be honest, I now think a 4 unit army is way to devastating but then again sacrificing a great leader should mean something. I'll decide later on if I'll shrink it to 2/3 slots. Maybe you should have a say here too.

    Finally the last patch I've spent the day on should correct most of the problems you signalled so far, except for the civilopedia. You might want to give it a try. It's probably better if you're not too fond of the progress you've made so far with the first version. Hey, nobody played the Gauls or Germans or Dacians so far?
     
  17. wolfman1234

    wolfman1234 Chieftain

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    I am playing as macedonians, but dont use the Hydaspides unit (7-3-2), i use the Phalangite ones instead, enslaving hoplites of defeated enemies for garrison in the new cities. There is a problem with the camps in dacia, i know you are dacian... :D but that barbarian camps around dacian cities makes no use conquering them, your garrisons become destroyed allways by the camps, no matter what you build in them, and as germans attack you very times they conquer the cities allways.

    The more productive route for macedonians if going asia minor, for the ionian cities and wonders.

    I love the Phalangite/Agriaspides army, 7 attack 7 defense and enslaving, the only thing that can match the roman legion. But i really think than roman legion should enslave another thing, auxilia infantery or something like that, if not, usually you can see hordes of legions everywhere. Its more balanced the macedonian way.
     
  18. jimmygeo

    jimmygeo Chieftain

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    OK, Monarch, I d/led patch1.2 and will play it as the Macedonians in DEBUG mode to see what the AI does as the Romans.

    BTW, why are there so many short wars and alliances in this mod? I'm getting tired of seeing the Foreign Advisor popups all the time.

    jimmygeo
     
  19. wolfman1234

    wolfman1234 Chieftain

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    Its becouse the locked alliances between civs so distant (i. e. Carthague-persia and so...). Most of them are fake wars.
     
  20. jimmygeo

    jimmygeo Chieftain

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    Well, I've played a couple of turns as Macedonia in DEBUG mode. Since the turns take about a hour each for the AI to play through and the entire map is visible at all times, you have a chance to 'get the feel' of the mod really well. Some quick observations: 1) Persia should probably not be a human player civ since I can't see anyone spending so much time moving all those units and managing so many cities. 2) Rome gets quite a licking from the barbarian (Samnite) units in central Italy. The AI doesn't do nearly as well with it as a human player. It certainly will not conquer Italy a 100 years early! 3) There seem to be WAY too many barbarians (more units than even the Persians it seems like). 4) The war galleys are not only too powerful but also not at all historical for the period (500 - 300 BC). The only waraships in regular use then were pentakonters, biremes and triremes. The 4/4/7 wargalley should probably not appear until the Punic War era.

    Another historical note: Macedonia was not at war with Persia until Philip I and Alexander's time. In 492 BC, Athens & Sparta (and you could also include Ionia) were at war with Persia, i.e. the "Persian Wars", which lasted until the mid-300's. In fact, Macedonia allowed the Persians to pass through their territory in 480 when Xerxes was attacking Athens and Sparta. In 492 Macedonia was nowhere near strong enough to fight Persia.

    My two denarii worth.

    jimmygeo
     

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