Was this really necessary?

[PieceOfMind]

It could be anti-american only in some right-winger paranoid american brain. For the rest of the world it is only a statement out of place invented to fill an space in the ottoman description.

I don't appreciate being lumped into the group of people who share your opinion just because I'm not American, nor with the label you attached to people who don't share your opinion. I considered the comment (that has now been removed from the website) to be anti-American and inappropriate.

 

[nmcul]

Honestly, I'm more upset by the fact that for Arabia the factoid is "None".

They couldn't think of anything?!

Well of course. Even us dumb Americans know that nothing interesting has ever happened in the history of the Near and Middle East.


EVER.

 

[TK42I]

It could be anti-american only in some right-winger paranoid american brain. For the rest of the world it is only a statement out of place invented to fill an space in the ottoman description.

'The single greatest scientific event in the history of mankind' must be a very anti-american statement.

1. People get touchy about stuff these days from every side of the political, religious, national spectrum. It is what it is. My point is 2K/Firaxis should not be wading into those waters and apparently some of their employees are.

2. The "factoid" about the US landing on the moon, is subjective to the point that it seems they are trying to get people annoyed. Although the actual quote is "...arguably the single greatest scientific...", I don't think that gets 2K/Firaxis off the hook. 2K/Firaxis...YOU NEED TO HIRE NEW COPY WRITERS. How about:

"The United States of America is the only nation to land human beings on the moon, which many consider a highly significant scientific event in the history of mankind."

3. I expect the press at E3 to ask a question about this.

 

[evrett37]

Hey guys. I just wanted to let you know that the text on that page on the website has been changed.

That text actually comes from the first paragraph in the in-game Civilopedia. It wasn't really the right type of description for the website, so we changed it.

In the real Civilopedia, it goes on with many paragraphs of Ottoman history, as a lot of the 'pedia pages do.

Here is the quote for anyone who missed it...2kgreg says they took it off the website but left it in the Civilopedia. So I guess they dont have a problem with the message but dont want you to know the product you bought has anti-American propaganda till after you buy it.

It is still being included in the Civilopedia (aka in the game) which is much much worse than on some website. At least 2kgreg did what he could to remove it from the website. Now its our job to get the Anti-American propaganda removed from the game.

 

[funkyj]

As a citizen of the USA all I can say to the people who got excited about this, el oh el

 

[frekk]

I don't know whether it is anti-American, but it is certainly unprofessional and gives good grounds to wonder if the rest of the civilopedia will be written to the same level.

It's also rather patronizing.

 

[Stormbolt]

I'm an American, and I found it amusing. Anyone who considers it "anti-American propaganda" is drastically overreacting.

 

[bjbrains]

I'm an American, and I found it amusing. Anyone who considers it "anti-American propaganda" is drastically overreacting.

That's downright unamerican you dirty commie terrorist!

In all seriousness, it probably shouldn't have gone up, but it's not a big deal. It's a joke based on real-life American tendencies to be, shall we say, less than well educated in world geography.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

It's a joke based on real-life American tendencies to be, shall we say, less than well educated in world geography.

Here we go again. As opposed to, well, whom?

Let's take Germany, because I live there. Give them a map of the U.S., or Africa, or even Canada without the names of the states, countries, or provinces written in and ask them to name them. Ask any German to find Lake Victoria, correctly name the Great Lakes, or keep Bhutan and Nepal apart. Now ask them to spell, not pronounce, but spell Massachusetts, Mississippi, or Tennessee. For amusement about pronouncing, just watch German news anchors try to get "Arkansas" or "Newfoundland" right. And for an encore, ask them which state the Grand Canyon is in. In half of the time, the put it in Colorado, because, you know, the river that runs through it. German news reports regularly put the Pentagon in D.C., which you think Google Earth would take care of. Oh, and it's great fun to ask a German which is the capital of California, San Francisco or Los Angeles.

This is not to dump on the Germans, because you can do the same thing with about anybody. The fact is people everywhere are ignorant. The difference is that it is fashionable in certain American circles to dump on U.S. education -- not always without reason, of course -- and then it gets picked up by the rest of the world for their own reasons. In the mean time, Americans are unaware that only one third of German school children even know who built the Berlin Wall. In other words, while Americans are worrying about their kids not knowing which countries the Nile flows through, German kids don't even know their own history. Education systems everywhere suck.

So, yes, there are some Americans who have problems with geography. But so does everybody else.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

From someone who was not born in America, and admittedly, has never lived there, may I offer a respectful interpretation of what Firaxis said?

The United States of America is a world "super-power" (which more or less means that it possesses weapons capable of destroying everything on the planet).

This is actually true. America is considered a super power by the rest of the world, primarily due to its military might.

A relatively young civilization, the United States formed in the 18th century, nearly self-destructed in the 19th century,

Also true. The near "self destruction" the quote refers to would be the Civil War, no?

and became the most powerful and dominant military, technological, cultural and economical civilization in the 20th.

Again, also true, and it indicates America's status as a world power, and acknowledges its technical, cultural, and economic strengths.

So far, I can't see anything to get one's knickers in a twist over.

One can hardly guess what will happen to it in the 21st.

Ok, maybe this one is the real stickler. I looked at it with the interpretation that America is full of promise, and it has been showing the world how to be a beacon of democracy, scientific progress, and cultural significance for many years. How many more great things will it continue to achieve in the 21st century? What next great milestone will it reach? Mars? Explore the outer planets? Will America's example of democracy influence other, less democratic nations, to embrace the freedoms and rights that you all enjoy now? I could go on...

Look at the other side of the coin, boys. It's tempest in a teacup from an outsider's view, and maybe from my vantage point, my view might be a little skewed, but nothing in those quotes is untrue, and dare I say, insulting. It just depends on how you look at it.

 

[Cboenanae]

Now they are anti-american, anti-ottoman, and anti-world! It's a selling point! And yes, hidden Civ 5 porn is a distinct possibility (although chances are low) since they have done it in the past.

EDIT: I sent 2K Greg a msg, but he has not responded yet. And with Firaxis being anti-world, this means they are not for global governance.

Seems a bit much, don't you think?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Lemon Merchant,
You do realise don't you that the most offending of the comments were removed from the website?

Primarily, the "storm in a teacup" was over this little gem in the Ottoman Empire description:

"Many Americans know very little about the Ottoman Empire (it occupies the blind spot Americans have for pretty much everything between Greece and China)."

Because you didn't comment on this, I'm fearing you didn't notice it (it's in the first post of this thread though). Would you like to offer your opinion about the now-removed comment? If you already did earlier in the thread and I've forgotten, I apologise.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

@ PoM:

You do realise don't you that the most offending of the comments were removed from the website?

Yes, I do. I have also checked the website recently, and almost every leader's video has been replaced.

Primarily, the "storm in a teacup" was over this little gem in the Ottoman Empire description:

"Many Americans know very little about the Ottoman Empire (it occupies the blind spot Americans have for pretty much everything between Greece and China)."

Because you didn't comment on this, I'm fearing you didn't notice it (it's in the first post of this thread though). Would you like to offer your opinion about the now-removed comment? If you already did earlier in the thread and I've forgotten, I apologise.

I did notice, and I agree with most of the posters in the thread. That comment should never have been made by the game developers, and I think that I would have been upset if the comment had been made of Irish people, so yes, I do relate.

It was late when I posted, and I had had a glass of wine, and I neglected to put in the bit about the Ottoman quote. My "tempest" analogy was directed more to the items that I quoted, that were considered to be a further outrage by tom2050. I was simply offering another perspective on what he and some others felt was upsetting. I did not see the slight in that particular quote, and tbh, I can't see why anyone would feel that it was offensive. I felt that quote was being looked at with the preconceived idea that Firaxis was America bashing again. I don't believe that they were in that case, but given the Ottoman quote, I can see some people having feeling that they were and reacting to it.

In the case of the Ottoman quote, they were most certainly mocking the widely held belief that Americans know nothing of anything that happens outside of their national borders. We all know that this is a broad generalization, and is not true. It was irresponsible for Firaxis to make a statement like that, even in fun.

I hope that clears things up.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I too take little to no issue with the other comments that have been scrutinised by people in this thread. The description of the American civ does seem to be pretty poorly written though, to the point where even I could probably write something more informative and accurate. Still, I don't really care that much - it's not like I actually read the civilopedia.

 

[Disgustipated]

I don't know whether it is anti-American, but it is certainly unprofessional and gives good grounds to wonder if the rest of the civilopedia will be written to the same level.

It's also rather patronizing.

It's very patronizing to civ fans. Maybe most americans don't know much about the Ottomans, but we do. We are playing this game after all, because we love history. To just assume we know nothing about them because we are americans kind of pisses me off.

And I also hate it when they assume we know nothing about geography. I know more about geography than most people in the world I'm willing to bet. The dumb american jokes have to stop. Every country has their dumb, ignorant population demographic, not just america.

I just wanted to agree with the quoted text. It is unprofessional, and I hope they are making the game more professional than this.

 

[Yared]

I still don't see it as a "lol americans are stoopid" but more as an acknowledgement to the lack of focus on Eastern history in the Western world's education system (at least during my 9 years of schooling - maybe we'll suddenly start talking about the Mughal Empire or the Han dynasty during my 3 last ones), because we happen to have other stuff to study about, namely Western history. And, like I think I've mentioned, whenever we do talk about something Eastern we don't spend enough time on it for it to be stuck in our heads.

That it happened to be about Americans is just that Firaxis/2k/whatever is in the US.

 

[civ_king]

many Americans are geographically challenged, I get told that Indians apparently aren't Asian, but Filipinos are Asian... Some people claim Gandhi was black (LOLWUT?), they confused Prussia with Persia (I mean Prussia/Russia is possible, but Persia?). Better yet they call me a raghead, I don't wear a damn turban and I'm Catholic, I've gotten pulled aside by the TSA because they think I'm Muslim while I'm holding a rosary, I mean seriously WTH? So yes, most Americans are geographically challenged.

Please get me out of this insane country

Moderator Action: Do not use inappropriate language on the forums

 

[blacksmit049]

Well, many people are not interested with history and geography. That's why when you asked what song is being played, you get the answer fast. But when you ask what is the capital of Brazil, ach! they will think, and sometimes if that person is confused, they may say the wrong answer.

Probably it is my opinion, but in my country there are lots! not just only in the US.

 

[Ahriman]

Liechtenstein? Kosovo? San Marino?

but I don't see Albania.

Ooops... good call. Albania and Kosovo in particular, epic fail on my part.

San Marino more understandable.

49) Kazakhstan
50) Azerbaijan
51) Georgia

These are a bit of a stretch for a traditional version of Europe. And if these, why not Armenia?

I think clearly the simplest solution is just to edit the statement to something we can all agree on.
"Many Americans know very little about the San Marino (it occupies the blind spot Americans have for pretty much everything between Forli and Perugia)."

 

[civ_king]

Ooops... good call. Albania and Kosovo in particular, epic fail on my part.

San Marino more understandable.


These are a bit of a stretch for a traditional version of Europe. And if these, why not Armenia?

I think clearly the simplest solution is just to edit the statement to something we can all agree on.
"Many Americans know very little about the San Marino (it occupies the blind spot Americans have for pretty much everything between Forli and Perugia)."

All of them are partially in Europe