Ways to use the Shwedagon Paya/Mausoleum

[insaneweasel]

I don't know how the shwedagon or the mausoleum can really help you win.

Most of the religious civics can be gotten early in the game, and you can switch to no state if you really need it.

The mausoleum seems like a huge waste, unless you have marble, plan to get the taj, are playing with events that can get you a golden age, and/or are producing a ton of great people.

So how do you use them well? I have no idea.

 

[Paw]

I never build shwedagon, but I love getting the mausoleum if I get the chance.

I often take nationalism with liberalism, so I frequently can build the taj if I want. I also tend to have 3-4 golden ages from GP. So that's anywhere from 3 (no taj) to 5 GA's, with another possible if you get lucky with events (I play with events on).

I play on epic speed, so that's another 15-25 turns worth of GA (with maybe another 5 if events are kind). That's worth more then the Taj. Maybe others don't feel its worth it, but I like to build the mausoleum if I can. Not a game breaker if I miss it though.

 

[z0wb13]

the mausoleum is awesome. late game golden ages, with big empires, is way better than bulbing and settling. it allows for 3 anarchy free civics changes, so you can flip in and out of slaves if you need to. the production bonus is great for finishing the spaceship, or making a ton of modern armor (and the commerce bonus helps domination if you are running universal suffrage). the main drawback is that the computer tends to prioritize calendar when the human is more worried about aesthetics.

the shwedagon paya... is pretty useless. you can run theocracy sooner, if you take the literature path. but pacifism comes fast after that, and many people beeline liberalism (duh;p) so access to free religion is kind of lackluster. and it pollutes the GP pool.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Most of the religion civics are available in the early-mid game, but the Shwedagon Paya lets you get them even earlier. Early free religion can be great for the happycap boost and the 10% science, and it's not that hard to build with gold. If anything, it's great for getting wonder failgold.

The mausoleum effectively gives a free golden age if you plan on having at least 2 golden ages at all. With the mausoleum and an established GP farm, you can generate enough GP from each GA to activate the next one, as well as hit those free GP techs faster. You chain 2-3 golden ages together, catapulting yourself into the industrial age while everyone else is medieval, and completely run away with the game. Alternatively, drop a GA after you conquered a ton of new land, use the opportunity to set up a ton of infrastructure like factories and coal plants, and make your new possessions productive really quickly.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

also, you can build them for fail gold, too.

I don't think I've ever used shwedegon, but to be honest, the two of the work well together - unlock pacifism really early to create GP for the long GA's the the mauseleum gives you....

 

[dirtyparrot]

Shwedagon Paya is more useful for higher levels when circumstances may make it more appealing to stay out of a state religion and free religion offers you a source of happiness and a boost to your science income. On lower levels, you can get away with not really caring that much about your diplomatic standing since you can easily match the AI's military strength.

MoM is a nice wonder to have, but the AI tends to beeline Calendar and is quite willing to trade it most of the time. So, there's usually a good chance that an AI beats you to it on higher levels. But the longer GA length lets you accumulate more GPP's (you can pop 2-3 great people if you swap into Pacifism/Caste have Philo trait and/or Parthenon).

 

[NihilZero]

No love for the SP? I think it's a fine wonder (if you have gold).

Think about it - early Pacifism or FR, two very strong civics which can have a big impact. Pacifism is massively powerful for obvious reasons (great people are better than pretty much anything in the early game), but an early FR is very strong in any situation where settling on a state religion is less than ideal. Might as well turn your indecisive fence-sitting into a 10% research boost with extra happy, right? Or maybe there is no religion on your continent. FR also prevents other civs from pressuring you to convert - they have to ask you to change civics first.

Then of course there is the fact that with the SP you have no need to ever tech the less than essential Monotheism or Theology, which saves you some nice beakers or trade cap space.

No need to explain why the MoM is awesome.

 

[Gwynnja]

SP is nice but I'd have to be IND with gold before I build it.

 

[pi-r8]

the timing is the problem with Schwadagan. If you want to run OR or theocracy, it's a lot easier just to trade for the techs- the AI will get them fast. If you want pacificism, you can get it yourself very fast after aesthetics- just trade for alphabet, research Code of Laws, and use a great scientist to bulb pacifism. Even free religion doesn't take that long to get if you go for a fast liberalism. Plus there's a lot of other, much better, wonders to build after getting aesthetics. The only good reason I can see to build Schwadagan is for failure gold.

The Mausoleum seems like it could be good, combined with several early GAs, but I've never tried this myself.

 

[vicawoo]

It's ok if you're not going for liberalism and want to save a great person for pacifism, that is, astronomy. Might work if you're pursuing the bottom half of the tech tree.

 

[madscientist]

I have found both wonders are very useful at higher levels.

Too often I delay monotheims/theology in order to get more essential techs. The problem is that the S. Paya is often unlocked too late for me to get it.

The Mauseleum is great if you beeline calender, someting I do if I have a lot of calander resources. MArble is nice but unimportant, what matters more is when I get the needed unlockign tech.

Bottom-line, the unlocking techs are often the problem, not the wonder cost or benefit which is pretty good.

 

[kossin]

MoM is definitely very very good. At the cost of 3GPs (1+2) you get the actual effect of 6 GPs. Moreover, the 'free' GA is worth at least 1 GP by itself.

So that's 4+ GPs worth for 3 spent, just counting the effects of the 'free' GA! The hammer cost is well covered during the GA as well. If you combine the GAs to match with Taj Mahal, you get 36 continuous turns' worth of GA on Normal speed. This is a very powerful strategy and not enough used.

SP depends on circumstances more. If you can't run a religion due to Diplo, then Free Religion can be nice if you have gold. Otherwise its main uses are failure gold and culture pressure.

 

[UWHabs]

Comparing Mausoleum to Taj, which people love to build, as long as you have 2 golden ages in a game, it's worth it. If I'm also building the Taj, then most games I'll have at least 3-4 golden ages, which makes the Mausoleum powerful. Not to mention at Normal speed, having the GA go from 8 turns to 12 means you can actually get in 3 civic switches during the time if you want it.

Its biggest drawback is that you build it and then it does nothing. That's why to me, it's always one of the wonders I love most to capture.

As for the SP, its best use is if you want the early free religion. Occasionally it can be good for an early pacifism or Theocracy if you want to avoid teching out to them. More often it's a decent source of failure gold if I have gold in my empire.

 

[Druin]

I actually just played an immortal game where I was stuck on an island with Masa and Asoka, who together founded every religion other than confuc. They never shared a religion and were happy to spread all 2309472389054 to my cities for me.

I had gold, was industrious and build SP relatively quickly which led to ~+4 happiness in each of my cities ages before that kind of +happiness was reasonable. I was thankful for that wonder in that situation!

I have never actually built the MoM due to never getting calendar before 99% of the ai's but I like the idea of GA's back to back into lib->nat->taj! I will try that soon.

 

[goodolarchie]

It's tough to get MoM on Immortal or Diety with a wonderwhore in your game, definitely worth building though. Hundreds of extra and , possibly squeezing out an extra GP if you switched to Caste/Pacifism in your GP farm. Taj is usually the reason I grab Nat'l from Lib (and sometimes to draft rifles).

 

[Ataxerxes]

I like MoM. I try to build Taj and some ****ing Great Artist will show up somewhere for a second Golden Age. As many have mentioned, the AI goes for Calendar and MoM pretty fast, so I can see it being nearly impossible at high levels. If you're France the GA is a lock.

Shwedagon Paya I never build. I like to run OR to help build infrastructure and some wonders. I can see it being very useful if the religious situation is too volatile to have a state religion. I usually have friends in my religion so am loath to switch and lose the love of some of my neighbors. Heathens are good targets for dogpiles.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

This important thing to remember with MoM is that it will not extend the GA if it is build during that GA. It needs to be build before. I think it will work for GP burns or a Taj ignited GA which extends the GA by linking a 2nd and 3rd, for example, but it will not extend a GA when built during a GA.

 

[Jaaboo]

I think Neal said it best. The MoM is the 401(k) of wonders - it pays off big way down the road when your empire is large and productive.

 

[iggymnrr]

SPaya can be nice in isolated starts but the MoM often isn't a priority early on. But I usually play HoF games so it's kind of the opposite. MoM gets used a lot in space/scoring games while the SPaya seldom gets used. (An HoF player would not be caught dead playing an isolated start.)

 

[champ82]

In my current game as Qin with gold I built the SP in my future HE city just for the culture. Hatty, who later got the Sistine, was right next to me and I only had 6 cities.

This may seem excessive but I believe it was worth while and there is another caveat. Spain was on another one of my borders and if you share Izzy’s religion that is just one border you don’t have to worry about, which is huge, especially on a crowded map. What I am getting at is one time I saw Spain build the SP and then go free religion for the rest of the game! I couldn’t be taking that risk on this game.

SP is usually not worth it. It can be nice in a religiously tumultuous map as Free Religion is much better than no religion. Trouble is the gap between building SP and Lib is not nearly as big as say the gap between mids and Constitution.