WH Discussion Thread

[Stormrage]

My idea was that each civ gets its own order. I thought we could give each civ its invsibile tech - "empire" for the empire etc, wich would be presequite (sp?) to build a wonder that would spawn units.
Example:

The Knights Panther - requires the "Empire" tech, iron, horses and beasts. Beasts cos of the Panthers, which were brought from the battle at Istrabul some 1000 years ago, and thats how they got their name.

And since no one had problems with Tileans producing the White Wolves so far, I`d say the names aren`t important (Panthers could go to Estalia, etc.)
Also, since all countries already have their own orders, the spawn rate could be increased a bit? Say 12 (or 10 turns for Fiery Hearts)? Or even higher, so that the player doesn`t just let the Wonder do his work

 

[kairob]

nuts, please ignore this...

 

[Stormrage]

Kai, read my post above yours

 

[mrtn]

That goes against the idea behind those wonders, and also mucks up Architecture.
And, civ specific wonders are boring.

In other words, a snowflake's chance in hell.

 

[Stormrage]

What Architecture?
But, OK, it was just an idea

 

[mrtn]

The tech.

 

[Stormrage]

But if the techs are invisible? Was it a joke?

 

[mrtn]

Architecture has Old World as a prereq.

 

[Mr. Do]

The tech that lets you build the Grand Cathedral, I believe. Still, the Grand Theoganist unit is mucked up anyway, so it wouldn't be so bad to get rid of him, but that's not important.

I definitely agree with mrtn though, already 4 Knightly Orders is a lot, especially when you're playing with only one or two Old World human civs. It'd be nice if there was some way to limit them, maybe give them high upkeep, or link them to groups of 5 improvements (So that each civ can't just jump into building all four Orders without any infrastructure in place).

 

[Stormrage]

Mr.Do, I wanted to add one more so that each civ can only build 1. But I really like your 5 improv limitation

 

[mrtn]

Hm, what about having them require a Keep or something to build? You'd have to build up to 4 Keeps in central cities before getting them, which hinders the human a bit, but it doesn't incapacitate the AI too much...

 

[aaglo]

hinders humans? how? I always build keeps in my cities...

I also like the idea of those orders requiring some infrastructure.
- White wolves require 5 keeps
- knight panthers require 5 colosseums
- fiery heart's (or was it fiery hart's) require 5 temples
- brotherhood of bear's require 5 ... umm... 3 castles?

..or something like that.

 

[mrtn]

They're not colosseums, they're Blood Bowl Arenas, and I don't see any knightly orders being much interested in football.

 

[CyberChrist]

In my personal version of this mod (over a year old now) I made those 4 wonders have the following additional requirements:

The Order of the White Wolf
Must have Wolves within city radius

The Knights Panther
Must have Horses and Iron within city radius

The Order of the Fiery Heart
Must have at least 5 Temples

The Brotherhood of the Bear
Must have Furs within city radius


EDIT: Thanks aaglo, sometimes cut&paste is not your friend - heh

 

[aaglo]

...you obviously mean Brotherhood of the Bear must have Furs within city radius.

your suggestions are quite nice.. altough we don't have wolf-resource anymore.

 

[Yoda Power]

Limiting one Knigtly order to each civ is easy. Here is what you do:

1. Make palace a requirement to build them
2. Give them the "energy plant flag" (whatever it's called). That allows you to only use one the buildings in the city with that flag.
3. Voila!

 

[Samez]

Yea but it should still be possible to build any two or howmany ever out of them.... Any way an other way would be to increse the turns of some of the wonders they drop units and to make the other ones somewhen not too late obsolete so there wuld still be an advantage of building them but they would be softend.
Yesterdays I started a game as Cathay (?) and tested their unitproducing wonders. Well the templedogs are quite useless (if ogres, knights and mercenary are all around) with 6/6/2 no blitz(?)+1hp the martial artist/celestical dragon monks with 6/6/1 atar but higher production rate is perhaps not a unit as good as them. perhaps the creation rate of temple dogs should be the same as of the mercenarys or at least equal to the monks... The Earthelementals/ Black widdows wich are not too far away are anyway better units/wonders.....

 

[aaglo]

@Yoda Power
The AI might get very confused by that... they would just keep on building new wonders... I think.

 

[Mr. Do]

I don't think they should specifically be limited to one civ a piece though, and I disagree with the need for "one for each civ". Cyberchrist's idea is good, it doesn't have to 5 buildings for each Order, just as long as there is some limiting factor.

Maybe:
The Order of the White Wolf
Must have at least 5 Keeps

The Knights Panther
Requires Beasts and Horses (But not in city radius)

The Order of the Fiery Heart
Must have at least 5 Temples

The Brotherhood of the Bear
Must have Furs within city radius

 

[Disenfrancised]

2. Give them the "energy plant flag" (whatever it's called). That allows you to only use one the buildings in the city with that flag.

Wonders override the "Replaces others" flag unfortunately; if you build something else with the flag then a wonder with it already in the city will not be removed. Unless of course you make them a building and have so each civ can only build one (but that'll probably result with 4 sets of Knights Panthers or something in the world ).