mouthpuncher
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 14
China
Greece
Egypt
Rome
Mongolia
Greece
Egypt
Rome
Mongolia
What 5 Civilizations Should Always Be In Civ?
- Thread starter Head Serf
- Start date
Sumeria (cradle of western civilization, IMO more than Babylon, or maybe Gilgamesh epic influences me)
America (I know it's a little ridiculous being around in 3000AD, but it is the most influential now)
Egypt (the other cradle of civilization)
China
Rome or Greece (can't decide)
If 6, go for Russia. Very important for modern times and we live in modern times.
I like the Byzantines, but that's a personal preference. Not most important for the game.
America (I know it's a little ridiculous being around in 3000AD, but it is the most influential now)
Egypt (the other cradle of civilization)
China
Rome or Greece (can't decide)
If 6, go for Russia. Very important for modern times and we live in modern times.
I like the Byzantines, but that's a personal preference. Not most important for the game.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
Germany
Japan
China
The first gave us panzers, jet fighters and a legacy of unpayably high gas bills.
The second gave us anime,
And the third gave us Bruce Lee.
All others are mostly irrelevant.
Japan
China
The first gave us panzers, jet fighters and a legacy of unpayably high gas bills.
The second gave us anime,
And the third gave us Bruce Lee.
All others are mostly irrelevant.
Yibbledorf
Babylon blue is pretty
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2009
- Messages
- 76
1. Rome
2. China
3. Egypt
4. Greece
5. England
With the Germans and Aztecs soon after.
2. China
3. Egypt
4. Greece
5. England
With the Germans and Aztecs soon after.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
Egypt
China
Inca
Aztec
Khmer
China
Inca
Aztec
Khmer
rrhal
Warlord
1) Babylon
2) Egypt
3) Classical western (Rome or Greece)
4) China
5) Aztec
Pretty much covers all the bases of the cradle of civilization around the world.
What am I thinking?
1) Pacific Northwest
2) Bohemia
3) Bavaria
4) Burton on Trent
5) Edinburgh/Scottland
The great beer capitals of the world. Civilization is a pointless exercise without beer.
2) Egypt
3) Classical western (Rome or Greece)
4) China
5) Aztec
Pretty much covers all the bases of the cradle of civilization around the world.
What am I thinking?
1) Pacific Northwest
2) Bohemia
3) Bavaria
4) Burton on Trent
5) Edinburgh/Scottland
The great beer capitals of the world. Civilization is a pointless exercise without beer.
Since the thread's been resurrected, might as well resurrect the England vs. America debate too. 
I had to pick between England and America to fill my fifth spot in the voting. (My other four spots were China, Rome, Greece and Egypt, none of whom I could justify dropping). I ended up picking England for the plain and simple reason that while America does count as a civilization by historical standards, it's still basically England 2.0.
This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but the principles of freedom the American Revolution was based around grew out of the English tradition going back to the Magna Carta. And while these days, those same principles are in decline in England (attempt self-defense in England and the police are more likely to arrest you than your attacker), they are not yet in decline in America. The recent Tea Party movement in America, for example, with its "Don't Tread On Me" flags and its "I want the government to leave me alone" message, harkens back to the same principles of personal liberty (derived from English roots) that pushed the original 13 colonies to split off from England and declare independence. It's actually rather fascinating, from a historical perspective, to watch it all happening.
(And that's all I'm going to say on that subject, because heated political debate would be MASSIVELY off-topic in this thread.)
That's why I say that America is basically England 2.0: its principles are a continuation of English principles, even as England begins to abandon them. And that's why England got my fifth vote in this poll rather than America: because without England and its culture, there would never have been an America in the first place.
I had to pick between England and America to fill my fifth spot in the voting. (My other four spots were China, Rome, Greece and Egypt, none of whom I could justify dropping). I ended up picking England for the plain and simple reason that while America does count as a civilization by historical standards, it's still basically England 2.0.
This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but the principles of freedom the American Revolution was based around grew out of the English tradition going back to the Magna Carta. And while these days, those same principles are in decline in England (attempt self-defense in England and the police are more likely to arrest you than your attacker), they are not yet in decline in America. The recent Tea Party movement in America, for example, with its "Don't Tread On Me" flags and its "I want the government to leave me alone" message, harkens back to the same principles of personal liberty (derived from English roots) that pushed the original 13 colonies to split off from England and declare independence. It's actually rather fascinating, from a historical perspective, to watch it all happening.
(And that's all I'm going to say on that subject, because heated political debate would be MASSIVELY off-topic in this thread.)
That's why I say that America is basically England 2.0: its principles are a continuation of English principles, even as England begins to abandon them. And that's why England got my fifth vote in this poll rather than America: because without England and its culture, there would never have been an America in the first place.
MythicCommodore
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 33
China, Rome, Greece, Babylon, and England.
Michigamer
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2010
- Messages
- 29
China, India, Rome, England, and Arabs (other).
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
All this anti-america stuff is an ironically biased joke. While not popular in world opinion due to arrogance and possibly a little hegemony (though arguably its status as that has long since faded with EU/China/India as such major players), the country has existed over a large landmass for over 200 years and has fought in some *very* historically important wars on the winning side.
People who would prefer some smallish island state or "anything but america" are being just as arrogant and foolish as anyone with too much pride in the country. How long were the incans around on the historical scene? How strong/long did zulu go? Germany in its current form (which is apparently separate from its history before being called that, since they threw in HRE too) isn't that much older...but if you are going to include influences on the land prior to the current country/civ, then native america has to be lumped into america too (this would be pretty weird, but the only way you could consistently argue down that line).
There are exactly 0 objective metrics that would put USA last in a historical significance equation among the civs present in BTS.
Of course, there are exactly 0 that would put them in the top 5, either.
Rome
China
England
India
Egypt
Mongols are being severely underrated on this. They had one of the largest empires ever and some very efficient controls for the time. Still, the 5 above have had a tremendous impact on history over a very long period of time.
Not really, it's been split up and united quite a bit in that time period, but it is damned historically significant. Egypt can contend in this spot too, if you are going to make the case for China, as its history might be a bit more united overall possibly (never tallied years)...India too has some quite deep history, though not 100% original populace.
People who would prefer some smallish island state or "anything but america" are being just as arrogant and foolish as anyone with too much pride in the country. How long were the incans around on the historical scene? How strong/long did zulu go? Germany in its current form (which is apparently separate from its history before being called that, since they threw in HRE too) isn't that much older...but if you are going to include influences on the land prior to the current country/civ, then native america has to be lumped into america too (this would be pretty weird, but the only way you could consistently argue down that line).
There are exactly 0 objective metrics that would put USA last in a historical significance equation among the civs present in BTS.
Of course, there are exactly 0 that would put them in the top 5, either.
Rome
China
England
India
Egypt
Mongols are being severely underrated on this. They had one of the largest empires ever and some very efficient controls for the time. Still, the 5 above have had a tremendous impact on history over a very long period of time.
Not really, it's been split up and united quite a bit in that time period, but it is damned historically significant. Egypt can contend in this spot too, if you are going to make the case for China, as its history might be a bit more united overall possibly (never tallied years)...India too has some quite deep history, though not 100% original populace.
Perhaps a good way of looking at it is how many game turns a civilization has been influential/important for. America has been influential/important on the scale that warrants inclusion in Civ for at least 90 years. So 90 turns. How many turns are there in between 27 BC and AD 476? I'm not good with the numbers of these types of things, but I'm pretty sure it's less than 90. So the argument could be made that America 'deserves' to be in Civ more than Rome. Although I'm not going to make that argument. I'll settle for 'they definitely deserve to be in'.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
Definitely the ancient civs that still survive today. So that's India and China. Rome is also a good choice, being very influential to its succeeding empires and the Western world. England has influence disproportional to its size ratio with the entire globe. Which leaves the last one. I guess America to balance it out. Lone superpower and all that, a civ in the Americas, and to sell copies. Maybe.
I'm pretty sure this selection is also recognizable and accessible for the average audience.
I'm pretty sure this selection is also recognizable and accessible for the average audience.
Sun Wukong
Chieftain
I'm surprised there hasn't been that much Indian love. My list:
1. China
2. Rome
3. Indians
4. Egypt
5. Persia
1. China
2. Rome
3. Indians
4. Egypt
5. Persia
jimkirk
Prince
i vote hebrew/israel should be tehre somewhere afterall it was the jewish religion/philosophy that inspired 2 of the largest religions in the world (islam/christianity)
and the jewish people have endured so long longer than any "classic" empires (greek/roma/ghengis khan/english/spanish/russian/babylonian/persion) they have survived longer than any people
no they arent the largest empire .. but they are always in everyones subconsious
so here goes my vote
1)Rome why because teh roman empire influenced a lot and was involved in a huge part of the known map of that time period and endured for a long while
2)babylon because they influenced a huge portion of the known map prior to rome
3)england was influential way beyond their tiny little island warrented . yes folks england is a tiny island but their influence is still felt today especially since most of the world today speaks some form of english
4)spain after england is the next most influential spoken by almost as most people in the world covering the entire southern hemisphere and a good chunk of the northern
5)israel/hebrew as i argued above .. islam and christianity was influenced by judaism practiced by the jews which is still around today and scattered all over the globe and still around while otehr larger empires have crumbled
finally mention should go to mongolia (ghengis khan) carthage persia greece byzantium they can always be added in expansions oh i forgot last but not least AMERICA for the last 2 hundred or so years they have been influential and most likely will continue for a while
and the jewish people have endured so long longer than any "classic" empires (greek/roma/ghengis khan/english/spanish/russian/babylonian/persion) they have survived longer than any people
no they arent the largest empire .. but they are always in everyones subconsious
so here goes my vote1)Rome why because teh roman empire influenced a lot and was involved in a huge part of the known map of that time period and endured for a long while
2)babylon because they influenced a huge portion of the known map prior to rome
3)england was influential way beyond their tiny little island warrented . yes folks england is a tiny island but their influence is still felt today especially since most of the world today speaks some form of english
4)spain after england is the next most influential spoken by almost as most people in the world covering the entire southern hemisphere and a good chunk of the northern
5)israel/hebrew as i argued above .. islam and christianity was influenced by judaism practiced by the jews which is still around today and scattered all over the globe and still around while otehr larger empires have crumbled
finally mention should go to mongolia (ghengis khan) carthage persia greece byzantium they can always be added in expansions oh i forgot last but not least AMERICA for the last 2 hundred or so years they have been influential and most likely will continue for a while
India surpasses it in many regards, which is why I chose India over China.
Egypt and Rome seem like easy choices. England isn't far off from these two, either.
I chose Germany (ostensibly including the HRE) for my final pick. I could have settled for Egypt, Rome and England; just because you ask for five civilizations doesn't mean that there are five civilizations worthy of being automatically included.
I specifically avoided America. It's a young nation, relatively, and as dominant as America has been the past century plus, it's plagued with what I consider some weaker leaders. So, from a gameplay point of view, it seemed a poor choice, as well as from a historical point of view.
I strongly considered Egypt, Rome and the Allied trifecta, America, England and Russia.
I think perhaps I should have changed Germany to Summeria. As far as important civilizations go, CIV mimics life in the sense that it was the early civilizations which had the most value to their actions (turns now are more important than turns later). Another very early civilization probably deserves the spot more than Germany.
Even though some people don't like America for it's arrogance(which, when you think about it, is warrented. A young country that was a superpower for half of it's life? Name a country that WOULDN'T be arrogant after that?) I think that when it comes to a game spanning from 4000BC to 2050AD, if it was suddenly cut down to 5 civilizations, it should be the representors of the 5 major eras, and the Modern Age(1900-2015, maybe?) was, like it or not, dominated by America, just as the Industrial Age was dominated by England, and the Classical by the Romans.
Turkey_ballz
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 34
Sorry that's some really hard reaching right there
Whilst America is quite a super power I think it's too young to make the top 5, the British Empire at one time covered 25% of the worlds surface and lasted quite a bit longer. So I personally believe England > America, for historical significance for now (key words).
I personally think a lot of the arguments for America are sometimes coming from patriotism (not that it isn't a valid argument!). Americans love their country it seems.
1. Rome
2. Egypt
3. Greece
4. China
5. England
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