What are centrist vs. extreme political views in the US

[Elrohir]

Spoiler :

I have been reading a number of things on how Obama is not a centrist and that the radical or extremist democrats will take over and destroy the US. So what is an extremist political position in the US?


Taxes:

Republicans. Eliminate the IRS. Inheritance taxes 0%. Regressivity. That is the rich pay a smaller percentage that the poor. They won’t say that because they only talk about income taxes in their calculations rather than SS and Medicare taxes that hit the poor much more.

Dems: Inheritance deduction of 4 million $s. then 35% on the rest. Marginal rates about 39%. CAP gains maybe up a bit to 20%. Maybe corporate rates down a bit.

Abortion:

Rep: None. Their most moderate position is to save the life of the mother.

Dems: Basically Roe trimester plan. Reduce with family planning/sex ed, support for unwed mothers.

Social Security/Medical Care:

Rep: Privatize everything and take a tax deduction on the costs.

Dems: Keep SS and remove the cap to balance the budget. (I admit this will gouge those earning over 250K with a 7% tax increase as well as the employers of those high paid workers) It also cures SS problems when combined with moderate increases in the retirement age. Medical: Still private, heavy regulation on insurance companies with a government insurance pool available along with subsidies for the poor.

Foreign policy:

Rep: Jihad for Democracy. Ultimatiums to enemies/no negoatiation.

Dem: More emphesis on diplomacy/compromise. War on terror downgraded to more targeted/law enforcement approach.

I would argue that Rep policies are extremist and that centrism is not splitting the difference but holding to a positions supported by the majority of Americans.

We’ve seen 8 yrs of Republican extremism. What do people fear as Dem extremism what is an extreme Dem position?

You're ideas are so nonsensical and conflicting, that I'm actually not quite sure what you were trying to do, besides spout random partisan nonsense. Are you trying to outline the extreme and the moderate sides of each party? That's what it sounds like you're doing, but if that's really it, you did an extremely poor job.

I think you need to clarify what kind of answer you're looking for, and what exactly you're trying to do. And drop the ridiculous level of partisan hackery, while you're at it. Then maybe this thread will have a chance.

 

[JerichoHill]

Obama has the farthest-left voting record in the Senate. How he surpassed Kennedy is beyond me. You want to call him centrist? Boggle.



You really do need help defining extremism.

And right there Eco is misrepresenting the truth.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/06/liberal-conservative-rankings-done.html

But of course use your highly biased and innaccurate figures. Would hate for you to expand your worldview.

 

[Ecofarm]

And right there Eco is misrepresenting the truth.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/06/liberal-conservative-rankings-done.html

But of course use your highly biased and innaccurate figures. Would hate for you to expand your worldview.

So the measurement everyone has been using for many years is not good anymore?

You should really do some research before repeating one sentence you heard on TV / read in some blog.

The national journal has been a measuring stick for many years. Every major news network carried their review this year.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/31/625886.aspx
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/01/31/politics/horserace/entry3775451.shtml
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/01/obama_ranked_most_liberal_sena_1.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/obama-was-the-m.html

 

[Mark1031]

You're ideas are so nonsensical and conflicting, that I'm actually not quite sure what you were trying to do, besides spout random partisan nonsense. Are you trying to outline the extreme and the moderate sides of each party? That's what it sounds like you're doing, but if that's really it, you did an extremely poor job.

I think you need to clarify what kind of answer you're looking for, and what exactly you're trying to do. And drop the ridiculous level of partisan hackery, while you're at it. Then maybe this thread will have a chance.

What do people fear as Dem extremism what is an extreme Dem position?

What Republican or Dem positions did I misrepresent? Jihad for Democracy is partisan hackery I admit, but you get the idea-if I understand the current rational for the Iraq war. Although eliminate the IRS is not a platform or McCain position (AFAIK) it was a position highly supported as an ultimate goal by many of the GOP candidates.

 

[Ecofarm]

What Republican or Dem positions did I misrepresent? Jihad for Democracy is partisan hackery I admit, but you get the idea-if I understand the current rational for the Iraq war. Although eliminate the IRS is not a platform or McCain position (AFAIK) it was a position highly supported as an ultimate goal by many of the GOP candidates.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

A progressive national retail sales tax.
A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.
Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.
Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.

Co-Sponsers
01/04/2007 Rep. Spencer Bachus AL 6 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Dan Boren OK 2 D
01/04/2007 Rep. Kevin Brady TX 8 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Dan Burton IN 5 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Mike Conaway TX 11 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Ander Crenshaw FL 4 R
01/04/2007 Rep. John Culberson TX 7 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Jo Ann Davis (deceased) VA 1 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Nathan Deal GA 9 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Tom Feeney FL 24 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Virgil Goode VA 5 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Kay Granger TX 12 R
01/04/2007 Rep. John Linder GA 7 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Michael McCaul TX 10 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Jeff Miller FL 1 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Sue Myrick NC 9 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Randy Neugebauer TX 19 R
01/04/2007 Charles W. Norwood (deceased) GA 10 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Steve Pearce NM 2 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Mike Pence IN 6 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Ted Poe TX 2 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Tom Price GA 6 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Cliff Stearns FL 6 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Thomas Tancredo CO 6 R
01/04/2007 Rep. Lynn Westmoreland GA 8 R
01/05/2007 Rep. Thelma Drake VA 2 R
01/05/2007 Rep. Phil Gingrey GA 11 R
01/05/2007 Rep. Don Young AK At Large R
01/09/2007 Rep. John Mica FL 7 R
01/10/2007 Rep. Dennis Hastert IL 14 R
01/11/2007 Rep. Jo Bonner AL 1 R
01/11/2007 Rep. Henry E. Brown, Jr. SC 1 R
01/11/2007 Rep. Steve King IA 5 R
01/11/2007 Rep. Timothy Walberg MI 7 R
01/18/2007 Rep. Jerry Moran KS 1 R
01/19/2007 Rep. Barbara Cubin WY 1 R
01/22/2007 Rep. Jeb Hensarling TX 5 R
01/23/2007 Rep. David Davis TN 1 R
01/30/2007 Rep. John Sullivan OK 1 R
01/30/2007 Rep. Ed Whitfield KY 1 R
01/31/2007 Rep. Todd Akin MO 2 R
01/31/2007 Rep. Jeff Flake AZ 6 R
01/31/2007 Rep. Jack Kingston GA 1 R
02/05/2007 Rep. John Carter TX 31 R
02/05/2007 Rep. Trent Franks AZ 2 R
02/05/2007 Rep. Ric Keller FL 8 R
02/05/2007 Rep. Dave Weldon FL 15 R
02/06/2007 Rep. Ralph Hall TX 4 R
02/06/2007 Rep. Jerry Lewis CA 41 R
02/08/2007 Rep. Richard Baker LA 6 R
02/08/2007 Rep. Roscoe Bartlett MD 6 R
02/08/2007 Rep. John Duncan TN 2 R
02/08/2007 Rep. Duncan Hunter CA 52 R
02/08/2007 Rep. Gary Miller CA 42 R
02/12/2007 Rep. Todd Tiahrt KS 4 R
02/15/2007 Rep. Mac Thornberry TX 13 R
02/28/2007 Rep. Pete Hoekstra MI 2 R
03/09/2007 Rep. Gus Bilirakis FL 9 R
03/29/2007 Sen. Saxby Chambliss GA R
03/29/2007 Sen. Tom Coburn OK R
03/29/2007 Sen. John Cornyn TX R
03/29/2007 Sen. Johnny Isakson GA R
04/17/2007 Rep. Brian Bilbray CA 50 R
04/18/2007 Sen. James H. Inhofe OK R
05/07/2007 Rep. Darrell Issa CA 49 R
05/09/2007 Rep. John Boozman AR 03 R
06/11/2007 Rep. Wayne Gilchrest MD 01 R
06/18/2007 Rep. Zach Wamp TN 03 R
07/17/2007 Rep. Rob Bishop UT 01 R
09/10/2007 Rep. Frank D. Lucas OK 03 R
09/17/2007 Rep. Mary Fallin OK 05 R
09/24/2007 Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite FL 05 R
10/09/2007 Rep. Doug Lamborn CO 5 R
10/23/2007 Rep. Rodney Alexander LA 5 R
02/06/2008 Rep. Paul Broun GA 10 R
02/14/2008 Rep. Rob Wittman VA 1 R
04/15/2008 Rep. J. Gresham Barrett SC 3 R
04/23/2008 Rep. John Kline MN 2 R

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_cosponsor

 

[AngryZealot]

There's only one D in that nonpartisan legislation .

 

[Ecofarm]

There's only one D in that nonpartisan legislation .

I was going to say something, but I thought I'd let someone else have the fun of noticing it too

 

[Cutlass]

"Fair Tax" means histories biggest tax increase on working people giving the rich a huge tax cut. They also appear to be lying about the tax rate.

 

[El_Machinae]

Abortion:

Rep: None. Their most moderate position is to save the life of the mother.

Dems: Basically Roe trimester plan. Reduce with family planning/sex ed, support for unwed mothers.

The extreme positions there would be: imprisonment for women getting abortions and subsidies for abortions

We’ve seen 8 yrs of Republican extremism. What do people fear as Dem extremism what is an extreme Dem position?

That they'll implement social programs which are on the verge of getting private funding, and thus greatly reduce the efficiency of that funding. I don't have an example on the tip of my head, but the idea is a decent fear.

As well, we're worried they'll implement programs at the national level which really should be done at the state level, if at all. I'm not too worried, to be honest, because there's a lot of low-hanging fruit currently available for good social policy.

 

[emzie]

So the measurement everyone has been using for many years is not good anymore?

The national journal has been a measuring stick for many years. Every major news network carried their review this year.

The methodology for rankings is little better than the whim of an editorial staff. Luckily for McCain, he missed too many votes to be ranked. You can give me one magazine that said Obama is the most liberal. I can give you a composite of a number of both left and right political lobbying groups.

Voters heard the same line about Kerry in 2004. I don't see it working as well this year.

 

[Ecofarm]

The methodology for rankings is little better than the whim of an editorial staff. Luckily for McCain, he missed too many votes to be ranked. You can give me one magazine that said Obama is the most liberal. I can give you a composite of a number of both left and right political lobbying groups.

Voters heard the same line about Kerry in 2004. I don't see it working as well this year.

Look man, don't pretend I picked up one line from the TV or a freaking blog. That was seriously dishonest of you and an attempt to smear me.

You should really do some research before repeating one sentence you heard on TV / read in some blog.

The National Journal's review was this year, and has for many years, been a measuring stick and the articles appeared on every major network. I provided links to the publication itself, NPR, CBS, ABC and MSNBC.

Take your 'one line on TV or a blog' and shove it


Have a nice day.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Anything short of continuing the war is appeasement. How many would you like me to list?

yes, of schools that breed illiterate creatures who consider a withdrawal synonomous with appeasement.

 

[JohnRM]

No he doesn't. His record is skewed because he's missed so many votes running for president.

Nice to know we're still paying him to not do his job, though.

 

[JohnRM]

And if the Republicans are so extremist and the Democrats so centrist (a joke of course), why do Republicans consistently win elections? Why has only one Democrat in 50 years served 8 years in the WH? Why?

~Chris

Nice. Stop your time line just before you get to the part where a democrat served four terms in a row practically uncontested. Truman never ran for a second term. John Kennedy was shot, which goes a long way toward preventing re-election. Robert Kennedy was then shot, giving the Republicans a huge advantage in 1968.

Jimmy Carter was inexcusable.

Republicans had Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was an elected General and war-hero more than an elected Republican. Next came Nixon, whose criminal activities forced him to resign. After that was Gerald Ford, who was never elected to office. You had Ronald Reagan for eight years. Bush Sr. got one term, raised taxes, and had his bags handed to him. Now we've had two disastrous terms under Bush Jr. for which both elections are shrouded in controversy.

Don't be too proud.

 

[JohnRM]

Yeah, I'm not complaining about it as i like GWB but he is about as right winged as you can get.

Ever heard of Alan Keyes?

 

[JohnRM]

OK, as usual no one responds to the question. First what is extreme? I am referring to US politics so we will limit it to US opinion. Extreme means far to one end of a spectrum of values and we are referring to public opinion. So an extreme policy view is one held by only a small amount of the electorate. Politics being what it is I would set a cutoff of say 40% support as being extreme with the reasoning being that any candidate that got more than 60% of the vote would be considered to have won in a landslide. So I will take the example of abortion and birth control.

From the 2004 Republican party platform:




Now if we look at polling here we see that the abortion view (No exceptions) is held by less than 20% of the public from multiple polls over a long period. Also only 30% oppose school based birth control. On this basis I would consider these extreme views in US politics.

Now can we have a similar example for the extremist Democrats?

I am telling you right now that those polls are full of crap. Those numbers are just flat out BS.


edit: Just looked at the site. That is not a scientific poll. It is an internet poll which relies on people to take part voluntarily. Of course, you also ignored that 37 percent more of respondents answered that children should not be given birth control in schools unless parents consent.

 

[JohnRM]

*And the numbers that say Obama is the "most liberal" are put out by a right-wing organization that just happens to claim, in time for Presidential elections, that every Democratic nominee is the "most liberal." They did the exact same thing with Kerry in 2004. Estimates that attempt some kind of objectivity generally place Obama in the middle of the party. Believe me, I would love to vote for the most liberal Democrat in the Senate (Russ Feingold, maybe?), but I understand that Obama ain't him.

"Laverne, what did you say about J.D. when he first started?"

"He was the most incompetent young doctor I've ever worked with."

 

[JohnRM]

And, the American colonials had no right to fight against the crown, but they did anyways didn't they? You're too hung up on what's "supposed" to happen instead of reality.

The colonies had their own governments. We had sent multiple letters to the King and Parliament stating our grievances. We sent diplomats. We established a Continental Congress. Then we made our Declaration of Independence, establishing ourselves as an independent state. We defended our homes. We didn't fly airplanes into Big Ben.

 

[JohnRM]

yes, of schools that breed illiterate creatures who consider a withdrawal synonomous with appeasement.

Hey, illiteracy and backwardness has kept the south Republican for a very long time. Can't argue with that.

 

[Elrohir]

What Republican or Dem positions did I misrepresent? Jihad for Democracy is partisan hackery I admit, but you get the idea-if I understand the current rational for the Iraq war. Although eliminate the IRS is not a platform or McCain position (AFAIK) it was a position highly supported as an ultimate goal by many of the GOP candidates.

Abortion. You said "Rep: None. Their most moderate position is to save the life of the mother." That's not true - there are tons of pro-choice Republicans, and even a lot of pro-life Republicans allow for other exceptions. Saying that the life of the mother is their "most moderate position" is pretty absurd, because I hold that view, and I'm hardly the most liberal Republican out there.

On abortion for the Democrats, you said: "Basically Roe trimester plan. Reduce with family planning/sex ed, support for unwed mothers." That's not true at all - there are tons of Democrats who think there should be no trimester limits at all, and abortions should be perfectly legal up to the day of birth.

Foreign Policy. You said the most extreme Democratic position was "Dem: More emphesis on diplomacy/compromise. War on terror downgraded to more targeted/law enforcement approach." Yeah, right. Opinions like this one - "The War in Iraq is naked oil piracy on a massive scale" and others are commonplace on the far left. I can quote other, more anti-American examples, but what's the point? You know was well as I do that there are lots of loonies in your party, just as there are tons in mine. What's stupid is your public denial of that fact, when it's obviously true.


I could go over everything else, but I don't see a point. There isn't much real discussion here, and I'm not even quite sure what it is you're trying to accomplish here.