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What are considered to be the "map script errors"?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Wombleburger, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Wombleburger

    Wombleburger Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I've heard people talk about at least two:

    (1) The cow glitch - I think this is where the only food resource for your initial city (if settled in place) would be a plains cow.

    (2) The forest spam - I've seen people say that if your BFC is covered in trees, that's also a map script error.

    Are these generally considered to be "errors"? On what basis? Are there others?

    I tend to play whatever map is generated and hardly ever regenerate, but I might reconsider that policy if there are some actual glitches or errors in the map scripts that generate starts the game developers didn't intend for you to have to deal with.

    (Also, keep in mind that I usually play Emperor-Marathon games, which no doubt makes it easier to recover from a poor initial city site.)
     
  2. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    #2. The map generator will add forests and food resources if your start position is weak. But it can't add food resources on top of forests. So if your position is very weak, you will get 19 forests and no food!

    #1 is what a certain poster calls #2 with a single plains cow.
     
  3. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

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    Mountains blocking a narrow land passage between two continents mess up AI decision making.

    (this may have been fixed, don't know)
     
  4. zyphyr

    zyphyr Prince

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    To be more specific, the default 'improve the start location' code does trees before adding food leading to "All Trees All The Time" starts instead of dropping a few food resources down.
     
  5. Orzio

    Orzio Prince

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    This certain posters name wouldnt be TMIT would it:D
     
  6. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    :nope:
    The AIs wait until Astronomy to expand further at the same continent. :crazyeye:
     
  7. Wombleburger

    Wombleburger Chieftain

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    So if I'm reading this right, the map generator adds trees to the starting location (presumably according to a roll of the RNG) before it adds food resources, so if you're really unlucky, it will sometimes generate enough trees to cover your entire BFC, leaving you with no space for food?

    So technically this wouldn't be an "error", then? Just really bad luck?
     
  8. Edzako

    Edzako Warlord

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    Does anybody have screenshot with all forest BFC ?
     
  9. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Actually I think it's obsolete. ;)

    Actually, I don't think that's the case, isn't it?
     
  10. Orzio

    Orzio Prince

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    Maybe TMIT ninjad it from obsolete :) or other way around.
     
  11. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    I looked up the code at one point. I think the food check comes before the forest spam, but one plains Cow is enough to pass the check. I'm fairly sure I've never had no food at all. Then there's an overall quality check, which will be failed about 2/3 or 3/4 of the time, in which case it goes into its "improvement routine". Once upon a time, the improvement routine added some forests by looping through every available tile (available means not a resource, capable of supporting forest; non-hut?), rolling the RNG, and possibly adding a forest. As of BTS, a comment symbol exists at the beginning of the line that invokes the RNG, such that every non-resource tile that can support a forest gets one. We don't know definitively whether that's an intentional change or an oversight that was never corrected. I used to believe the latter, but it's been discussed publicly enough that Firaxis must be aware, yet it hasn't been "fixed" in a patch. Anyway, after the forest spam, the improvement routine attempts to add resources. Naturally it finds this difficult when all the land tiles are covered in forest, but sometimes it's able to compensate by adding 2 or 3 or 4 seafood. Yeah, the seafood smorgasboards that started occurring with BTS are an indirect consequence of the forest-spam.

    Independent of the resource-adding difficulties, I continue to believe that foresting every tile degrades gameplay: it gives you certain knowledge of which tiles contain hidden resources. And it makes BW a pre-requisite to build cottages, farms, or mines, except on resource tiles.
     
  12. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Actually, you're right.
    The problem isn't the one tile mountain choke point, but the AI who doesn't use galleys to settle at the other side of that mountain.
     
  13. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    My current game is close to both these bugs. At least :hammers: won't be an issue. 2 cows(1 grass 1 plains so not too bad) & 15 forests in BFC.

    Civ4ScreenShot0095.JPG
     
  14. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    There's another map glitch which only affects AI's as well, it can make a particular game much easier. If you take a look at the Nobles club XL Mehmed game, you'll see that Sitting bull has a powerhouse cap with 3 clams and 2 corn in the BFC.

    Only problem is that 1 corn and a forested grassland hill are on a separate island and for some reason Sitting Bull doesn't know how to load a worker onto a galley and improve them. This is more of an AI glitch but it's very much affected by the starting location that the map gives them.
     
  15. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Illustration to my previous comments.

     
  16. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    At least that's 2 cows, not just 1 crappy plains cow. That start isn't too bad, though.
     
  17. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    Ya, it was a fun game, the 2nd cow makes a big difference and all the forests to chop is always nice (plus you can see i had 2 hidden resources in the BFC). One plains cow is rough going. 20 forests with no resources sounds crazy, especially if you don't start with mining.
     
  18. z0wb13

    z0wb13 undead

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    do floodplains count as food?
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    BetterAI fixed it (along with a lot of things, such as improvement cycling and getting vassals to prepare for war along with their masters (even the human can take advantage...!)). Default civ still has that problem.
    As for who pioneered the term "cow glitch", my lips are sealed :p.

    Just kidding. I am z ninja!!! I am not certain if the exact terminology was used prior to me spamming it on the forums, but I definitely wasn't the first to become aware of the bug (it's been known since before I joined these boards! Makes one wonder why this can't get fixed in a @#@#% patch if they're willing to screw with so much else across 2-3 patches).

    But one of the fun things about having a reasonable large forum presence and the high-level youtube videos is that beginners think I do, came up with, and know more than I actually do :lol:.
     

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