What are the best National Wonder combos?

justawarlord

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
8
im always unsure how to specialize my cities and national wonders.

Ironworks and Herioc Epic?
Oxford and National Park?
etc
etc

What two National Wonders do you pair together?

Thanks in advance!
 
I prefer pairing West Point with the Heroic Epic. That way you avoid the diminishing returns on production, maximize your number of highly promoted units out of the box and can use the IW city for wonder building without wasting HE during those turns.

On the diminishing returns angle, consider that your HE and IW cities should each have 60+ base hammers and forges by the time you can build IW. HE only helps when building units. When IW can be built, you're building riflemen, cavalry, cannon and maybe infantry, all in the 150-210 hammer range. Let's just use a hypothetical 70 base hammer city with a forge. HE makes that 157 hpt when building units. That's 1-2 turns for every unit, even before considering overflow. In fact, that city will be able to produce every modern unit in 1-2 turns, as well, especially considering the 53 hpt boost it will get from a factory and power (grand total of 210 hpt). Add IW to that city and you get 227 hpt, good for a unit every turn. You've saved a turn off every unit that was going to cost 2 turns, which is going to be far less less than every unit you're building. In my games, I'm able to keep the overflow going so that pretty much all my HE city units after a certain point are produced in a single turn.

Now, consider a second city with 70 base hammers and a forge (which shouldn't be difficult to imagine). Without HE or IW, it's producing 87 hpt, good for 2-3 turn units. Add IW to it and you've given yourself a second unit producer as good as your HE city, meaning that you've got two cities producing a unit every 1-2 turns. You've shaved a turn off just about every unit you produce. Remember, it's all about turns, not hammers. The hammers are just a means to minimize the turns.

Two cities producing roughly a unit every turn or so also lets you diversify and specialize your unit production. One of my favorite things to do is build a stack of Combat IV marines in my HE/WP city (easy with Charismatic, but a GG-eater without), then send them overseas to attack coastal cities for the sole purpose of gaining Combat V and Commando promotions (then starting down the Drill line if I gain enough XP). With this approach, I can do that while still pumping out CG infantry, CR tanks and whatever else I need from my IW city. My other cities supplement the army with regular line troops, but these two cities form the backbone. With HE and IW in the same city, you're having to rely on your next best production city, which is going to be far behind your HE/IW city, to provide your elite troops through WP.
 
West Point + Heroic Epic in a high production city (not your highest one since Ironworks would go there; preferably coastal)

Oxford + None/Whichever depending on the situation (In my current game I have it on my Ironworks city)

National Epic + Globe Theater/National Park

Wall Street + Oxford/None/Whatever fits the city
 
Oxford + Wallstreet in a Capital running Representation, Bureaucracy, and a whole bunch of Merchant specialists.
 
I'd say
National Epic + Globe Theatre
National Epic + National Park (late game)
West Point + Heroic Epic (Red Cross in late game)

Oxford Uni and Wall Street shoud definitely not be together. Much better is to specialize two cities with one NW each.
 
National Epic + Globe Theatre (if you're farming like crazy) or National Park (if you've retained forests to preserve) for a great person farm.

Heroic Epic + West Point for a military production city.

Iron Works + Red Cross for a wonder/space-ship production city that can produce above-average units quickly when needs be.

Wall Street + whichever city has your biggest, meanest religious shrine(s) and any corporations you wish to add later.

Oxford University + whichever city has a ton of towns around it.
 
What about Moai Statues?
 
I build Moai Statues on a coastal city with a lot of water tiles and not much production. I try to make it my "naval" city a lot of times. I don't know that I "pair" it up with anything though, maybe Mount Rushmore or another random one.

A combo I like to do is Globe Theatre with Red Cross so you can draft Infantry with Medic I every turn.

Also, I like to put my National Epic with my Wall Street city. I usually turn my holy city (or someone else's) into a GPF by working all food and working merchants and adding merchant specialists to the city. This leaves your National Epic vulnerable to health and happiness problems so a lot of people avoid it, but I can still work plenty of specialists (all 7 merchants and then some) so I don't see what the problem is. It allows me to free up the Globe Theatre and the National Park for other uses.

But I also don't follow, or buy into rather, the rule that you should only have one GPF. I generally have at least three cities that produce Great People, and I find I get way more of them than if I have one city producing all of them.
 
Oxford + National Park + Representation Civic.

Be Frederick. Run 6 Scientists + 8 engineers (Forge + Assy Plant + Industrial Park). Get Power from some non-Coal source. Have fun :D
 
I also prefer the Heroic Epic/West Point combo. Ironworks I prefer to put in a wonder construction city rather than military. With Heroic Epic you're probably down to one turn a unit anyway.

Oxford is usually best in the capital, due to bureaucracy, though this is not always the case.

Wall Street goes with religious shrines and corporate HQ's - there's no benefit to combining it with Oxford.

National Park and National Epic have obvious synergy, but you might choose 2 GP farms over one. Maintaining forests in you national EPic city until the invention of biology isn't exactly ideal.

Moai statues obviously go somewhere with a lot of water, beyond than no obvious combination.

The Globe creates some drafting and whipping possibilities in a high food town.

The other national wonders are fairly irrelevant, and may be placed anywhere.
 
Red Cross + West Point in a good production city to produce elite forces (also great generals are used as instructors here)

Ironworks + Heroic Epic in my main unit producing city (usually the 2nd city i make)

Wall Street + Oxford University in cottaged capital running bureaucracy (for extreme income and science)

National Epic + Globe Theater in my GP farm (usually the 3rd city i make)

Forbidden Palace as far away from capital as possible, but in my "mainland".

The statue thingy in a random city, usually placed on a small island

Hermitage to a random city

Scotland Yard in a random city

Mt. Rushmore in a random city

Havnt found a proper way to combine the last 4 but i havnt really tried either, as they dont affect my playstyle that much.
 
Great post Solomwi! Optimizing one or two pure military cities can sustain an empire through out an entire game aimed at winning through more peaceful means.
 
Wall street+Holy Shrines+2 corporations is fantastic combo if you want lots of Gold.

For Holy shrines you get 1gold per city and if you are really lucky you could have a double religion super-holy city. You build market+grocer+bank+mall = 120% gold boost and add Wall street to that and you could end up with a total boost of 220%. I had this city with Christianity and Islam holy shrines. To add more it was a coastal city so I could build harbour and a Custom house. If possible you could also try a combo of Wall Street+Holy shrine+Spiral Minaret+2 corporations which the rival civs would love to have. They will spam (Mining Inc and Sid Sushi/Cereal mills) corporations in their cities. You will end up not +5 base profit, but +15 Gold(5base+5 because of market+grocer etc.+5 because of wall street).

And for production of Veteran Units:
as mentioned before are
West point+red cross+Great Military instructors or Academy(50% production boost or +2xps)
or Iron works+red cross
Heroic epic+red cross
or Heroic epic+West point
 
The combinations I like are Moai Statues and Ironworks. If you plan on dominating the seas, I have found that this help builds a big navy, which may otherwise prove harder with coastal cities generally having lower production.

I also like Heroic Epic and West Point. If built in a high production city, I see little point pairing the Heroic Epic with Ironworks as you should already be producing a lot of units here, so the effect of Ironworks isn't so noticeable. I find it much more useful to have the experience that West Point gives units.

Wall Street, Oxford Univeristy and National Epic obviously then go in your commerce city, and GP city respectively, but I will only pair up these national wonders if I feel that there isn't a city more needing. If I have an unhappy city, I would would rather put the Globe Theatre there, or if it's unhealthy, then thats where I will put the National Park. If I don't have this problem, then I will then pair up on what I feel most necessary.

Finally, the Forbidden Palace has no pairing that would make sense. I always just build it as far away from my capital as possible, and with increased maintenance costs for building on other continents, I often save it for when I conquer distant lands.
 
Heh, a shrine plus wall street and 4 corporations in a city with 4 gold mines and 1 uranium mine is better yet! :D

I think the best combinations are:

National Epic+Ironworks for churning out Great People. You need Iron Works to build wonders quickly and NE to double the output of the wonders you've built with IW.

Wall Street+Oxford University in the city with the most commerce in its fat cross. You'll be able to research techs at an astounding rate! If you get a Great Spy you can build Scotland yard here as well and spy on your neighbors with all that commerce you're raking in. If you're using Vanilla Civ or Warlords you won't be able to do this, but oh well. You can't get everything you want all the time.

Heroic Epic+West Point for obvious reasons.

National Park+Globe Theater along with Sids Sushi and lots of seafood equals a city with a astounding amount of population in it.

Redcross plus any other national wonder depending on situation in your second best military production city to crank out good fast medics.

Mount Rushmore where ever it suits the situation.

Hermitage where ever it suits the situation.
 
Here's my favorite strategy:

Planned Cities
--------------
War Machine (HE + WP) on a river for Levee
Hammer Spammer (MS + IW) on a river for Levee
GP Farm (NE + NP/GT) in city with most food
Border Pusher (HT + MR) wherever culture battle is most important
Science Center (OU + NP?/FP? + AC + PA?) in prime cottage country
Cash Cow (WS + NP?/FP?) in holiest city, with corporate HQs added later
Medic City (RC + FP?)
Big Brother (FP? + ? + SY + PA?)

Comments
--------
- NP should go wherever the most unneeded forest tiles are
- FP should go far from the capital but not at a border (since it would
benefit less cities there)
- PA should go in Science Center if your average Research slider is at
least 50% (to use +8C) or Big Brother (to use +4EP)
- Hammer Spammer can build navies, World Wonders, Projects, and
spaceship parts

National Wonders with max-2-per-city
------------------------------------
FP = Forbidden Palace
GT = Globe Theatre
HT = Hermitage
HE = Heroic Epic
IW = Ironworks
MS = Moai Statues
MR = Mount Rushmore
NE = National Epic
NP = National Park
OU = Oxford University
RC = Red Cross
WS = Wall Street
WP = West Point

Single Extra Building
---------------------
PA = Palace

Unlimited Extra Buildings
-------------------------
AC = Academy
MA = Military Academy
SY = Scotland Yard (changed in BtS to be built by Great Spy)
 
Ironworks+Red Cross: super production city
West Point+Heroic Epic: military city
Two of National Epic/National Park/Globe Theatre: GP farm
The problem with running Globe Theatre and National Epic is that you need to farm like crazy, and have a massive population that will definitely be unhealthy unless you leave out production buildings, in which case you won't get anything built without rushing.
Wall Street: shrine/corporation HQ city
Oxford: biggest research city, best paired with Beauracracy
If possible put the last two together, that way if you're not running 100% research the commerce will still get a huge multiplier from Wall Street.
 
Wall Street: shrine/corporation HQ city
Oxford: biggest research city, best paired with Beauracracy
If possible put the last two together, that way if you're not running 100% research the commerce will still get a huge multiplier from Wall Street.

I think you will run into conflicting interests here. Oxford cities should be heavily cottaged, hire Scientists, and focus on science-multiplying buildings. Wall Street cities should be heavily farmed to hire plenty of Merchants and focus on gold-multiplying buildings. That is, unless you tend to run below 50% science, in which case you could just farm the Oxford city and hire tons of Scientists.

And on harder difficulty levels you will have a hard time building all that stuff in just one city to begin with. (Or at least building it all early enough to have a long useful life).
 
The definite combinations:

  • Heroic Epic and Moai Statues: Obviously a coastal city, the statues make the water tiles productive. I tried this for the first time in the 2nd Peter ALC and it worked great.
  • West Point and Red Cross: A 2nd military city that can produce highly promoted units with Medic I. I usually ensure it's coastal as well and have it focus on Transports, Destroyers, and City or terrain Garrison units (Infantry, Marines, SAM units, Mech Infantry, Paratroopers).
Now this begs the question, what about uber-promoted units in the HE city? I usually settle 2 Great Generals in that city as Military Instructors. This gives me the benefits of West Point there (often long before that wonder is available if I'm warring enough early on). It also means one of my two military cities can keep producing units during the many turns it will take to build West Point, which can be a long build, especially if I don't have stone.

The sometimes combinations:
  • Oxford University and National Epic: I don't always do this, but if I'm not playing as a Philosophical leader and I mainly want to produce Great Scientists, I'll go with this combination, especially to ensure I win the Liberalism race. It usually throws me at least one Great Artist, but in BtS those suddenly have another potential use: a Golden Age.
  • Ironworks and National Park or Globe Theatre: I'll be the first to admit that combining the Ironworks with either of these wonders doesn't optimize the latter two, but it does optimize the Ironworks. Rather than using Ironworks to pump military, I use it to pump wonders. That means I don't want either happiness or health to be concerns, so one of these two wonders relieves whichever problem is greater. Unfortunately I usually lumbermill any remaining forests around the IW city, so I forgo the free specialists from the National Park; and since I want every tile worked to max out hammers, engineer specialists, and population, I forgo the whipping benefit of the Globe. Insert shrug here.
 
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