What are the three modern nations would you include in all editions of the game?

[Zaarin]

Well we saw what happened to Charlie Hebdo, not sure that happens when getting involved with any of the three major branches of Christianity

That involved a depiction of Mohammed that Muslims in general deemed offensive (beyond the normal fact that they consider depictions of religious figures taboo). I don't think Sunnis are offended that Shiites exist (or Sufis etc.).

 

[The Civs 6]

That involved a depiction of Mohammed that Muslims in general deemed offensive (beyond the normal fact that they consider depictions of religious figures taboo). I don't think Sunnis are offended that Shiites exist (or Sufis etc.).

once burned twice shy

 

[nzcamel]

Okay let's break this down. Cuba, Armenia, Afghanistan and Bhutan (population of less than a million!) have accomplished nothing of note and would be out of place even as city states in the game.

Erm...

(emphasis mine)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Erm...

(emphasis mine)

Don't forget Afghanistan is already one too.

 

[Xandinho]

Well beyond my taste in what Civs they include, how do you even have strengths for Nigeria? It's the same with a lot of these modern countries - sure a lot of people live in them, but at least by reputation their defining characteristic is being poorly run. At least with historical civs there is a certain gloss added by history where we forget the grim reality of some of them (I'm looking at 600-900's Byzantine Empire with this comment).

With countries like Nigeria, Cuba etc., there is a very good chance they won't exist in about 100 years. So at least give them a little bit of time to establish some sort of nationhood.

Well, as far as Cuba is concerned, I wouldn't mind Havana being a cultural city-state with bonuses for great works of music, given Cuba's influence in some modern musical genres .

 

[The Civs 6]

Erm...

(emphasis mine)

They have about the same number of people in their whole country as the county that I live in.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They have about the same number of people in their whole country as the county that I live in.

Why does that mean they shouldn't even be allowed as city-states?

Isn't the whole point of city-states to put in non-playable minor nations/cultures?

 

[The Civs 6]

Why does that mean they shouldn't even be allowed as city-states?

Isn't the whole point of city-states to put in non-playable minor nations/cultures?

Well it depends on whether you are including the modern state of Armenia, or the Armenia of the classical and early Medieval era. The latter was actually a fairly significant state and probably merits inclusion. But I'm not sure the Yerevani state does.

 

[Zaarin]

His point was that Yerevan and Kabul are already city-states in Civ6. Personally I'd love to see Classical/Medieval Armenia in the game, and I would have preferred Armenia to Georgia. Tigranes the Great or Tiridates III would make great leader choices.

 

[Xandinho]

His point was that Yerevan and Kabul are already city-states in Civ6. Personally I'd love to see Classical/Medieval Armenia in the game, and I would have preferred Armenia to Georgia. Tigranes the Great or Tiridates III would make great leader choices.

There is a good Armenian mod on Steam, but I removed it from my games when I noticed that they did not replace Yerevan by another city-state. It's not immersive that you have two Yerevans on the map . I don't know if it's already updated.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well it depends on whether you are including the modern state of Armenia, or the Armenia of the classical and early Medieval era. The latter was actually a fairly significant state and probably merits inclusion. But I'm not sure the Yerevani state does.

I'm pretty sure when most people want Armenia in the game it's not based off of them present-day. And I'm pretty sure the current city-state is based off of classical Armenia with it's religious traits.

There is a good Armenian mod on Steam, but I removed it from my games when I noticed that they did not replace Yerevan by another city-state. It's not immersive that you have two Yerevans on the map . I don't know if it's already updated.

Maybe the city-state is just the modern day capital and not the ancient one.

 

[nzcamel]

Don't forget Afghanistan is already one too.

Yeah, that was a secondary horror of mine. The first was that The Civ 6 seemed ignorant of Armenia's long and substantial history. I mean, yes, were were only a regional power for a short time; but even after that ended Armenians played a significant role in the M.E. for centuries. How many races commonly had a "Quarter" of various cities named after them? Not many!

They have about the same number of people in their whole country as the county that I live in.

Which is relevant on world impact how exactly? I agree that bigger population countries have a far greater chance of being more powerful and impactful; but that doesn't mean that some small countries don't punch above their weight.

Well it depends on whether you are including the modern state of Armenia, or the Armenia of the classical and early Medieval era. The latter was actually a fairly significant state and probably merits inclusion. But I'm not sure the Yerevani state does.

Why would anyone discuss modern Armenia as it pertains to a game about civilisation, when they can talk about the classical state?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah, that was a secondary horror of mine. The first was that The Civ 6 seemed ignorant of Armenia's long and substantial history. I mean, yes, were were only a regional power for a short time; but even after that ended Armenians played a significant role in the M.E. for centuries. How many races commonly had a "Quarter" of various cities named after them? Not many!

Isn't the problem with implementing Armenia as playable is because of offending the Turkish community? At least that's what I've understood but I don't necessarily want to get into a whole political discussion over it.

 

[Zaarin]

Isn't the problem with implementing Armenia as playable is because of offending the Turkish community? At least that's what I've understood but I don't necessarily want to get into a whole political discussion over it.

My understanding is that Turks get very sensitive about talks of Armenian revanchism regarding Mt. Ararat and "Eastern Anatolia" (AKA Ottoman Armenia), but it's not my understanding they go all China-and-Tibet over it and claim Armenia never existed in Anatolia in the past. I really don't think an Armenian civ would be that controversial in Turkey--and certainly not anywhere outside of Turkey. (Honestly Armenia and Azerbaijan have much tenser diplomatic relations than Armenia and Turkey because of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic--but I'm not sure Azerbaijan would ban a game over including Armenia, and if they did I'm not sure Azerbaijan is really a major enough market for 2K to care.)

 

[nzcamel]

Isn't the problem with implementing Armenia as playable is because of offending the Turkish community? At least that's what I've understood but I don't necessarily want to get into a whole political discussion over it.

It better not be. Pandering to regressive regimes does my head in.

 

[Revanchist]

I would like 'Italy' as a modern nation, but I could see it more as a renaissance focused one. The problem with modern nations is that their bonuses tend to come late which is annoying during gameplay because you don't have much time to play around with them. The latest I have ever really been willing to go is Industrial, but I think America and Australia are definitely important in terms of varied playstyle and importance, australia more so because I would like to see how they interact with the desert in future additions.

 

[Zaarin]

I would like 'Italy' as a modern nation, but I could see it more as a renaissance focused one.

Considering modern Italy kind of lost at everything I think the only justifiable reason to include Italy is as Renaissance Italy. Even then, I can think of several European civs I'd rather have.

 

[CivLuvah]

Zaarin you strike again!

That should be a catchphrase.

I only voted for America, since I don't see any other reason to choose two more from the list. Brazil almost got my vote, but I think most people are including it because we're already used to having Brazil since it was in the previous iteration already.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Considering modern Italy kind of lost at everything I think the only justifiable reason to include Italy is as Renaissance Italy. Even then, I can think of several European civs I'd rather have.

Well inventing pizza is a win in my book.

 

[Zaarin]

Well inventing pizza is a win in my book.

What we Americans call pizza isn't really what they eat in Italy, though. (And I say that as someone who prefers the traditional Italian style.)