What Are You Listening To (Classical Version)?

Cheezy the Wiz said:
I absolutely love this song. It was famously used at the end of Master and Commander. Here is the folksier, slower sounding arrangement they used:
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Yes that is the passa calle. Since I noticed in another thread that you have a high opinion of Charles Ives, the whole composition should interest you, as it resembles some of his works in that it is a depiction of Madrid at night with church bells, relligious prossessions, street dance, a military regiment advancing and retreating and what not, a bit like some of Ives' musical sketches from Amewrican city life.
I haven't seen Master and Commander since I was terribly disappointed by those over-hyped novels, but I seem to remember it was also used in the TV production Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Silk Stocking where Rupert Everett of all people was casted as Holmes.
Anyway, it is interesting that Boccherini, who lived in Spain for over half his life composed so little in specifically Spanish style. However when he did he did it well. The fandango from guitar quintet no.4 is all but riveting. I know few better antidotes for gloominess.

Link to video.

JEELEN said:
Speaking of nocturnal, I found John Field's nocturnes to be more subtle than the more well-known similarly named pieces by Chopin:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear....7.7.0.86.435.8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.jtIlNvHquH0
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Thanks. While we must respectfully disagree on who displays the greatest sublety, John Field is a composer who deserves more recognition. I happen to be the proud owner of this box set, which I can heartily recommend to anybody interested in piano music from that period: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=102405
EDIT: And the Boccherini pieces comes from this, one of my desert island albums.http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=126435
 
Richard Cribb said:
Thanks. While we must respectfully disagree on who displays the greatest sublety, John Field is a composer who deserves more recognition. I happen to be the proud owner of this box set, which I can heartily recommend to anybody interested in piano music from that period: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=102405
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A highly useful link. Subtlety, however, isn't something which is displayed, it is a quality. Field's nocturnes require modesty rather than virtuosity. If one compares Field's with Chopin's, the latter are the more intense, while the former are the more subdued; in this sense Field's deserve the term 'nocturne' more than Chopin's. If one misses Field's subtlety one might be inclined to slumber, whereas Chopin's simply peak the attention of the listener by their sheer intensity. I could explain further, but I'm sure my intention is clear already.
 
JEELEN said:
A highly useful link. Subtlety, however, isn't something which is displayed, it is a quality. Field's nocturnes require modesty rather than virtuosity. If one compares Field's with Chopin's, the latter are the more intense, while the former are the more subdued; in this sense Field's deserve the term 'nocturne' more than Chopin's. If one misses Field's subtlety one might be inclined to slumber, whereas Chopin's simply peak the attention of the listener by their sheer intensity. I could explain further, but I'm sure my intention is clear already.
Click to expand...
I am sorry, but I simply can't agree. The way I see it, Field's music is quite simply much less good than Chopin's. When listening to field, and his uncomplicated admittedly beautiful melody-orientated music, I associate it with people like Moscheles, Kalkbrenner, Herz, Hiller etc. All good men but not quite in Chopin's league. Furthermore while it seems like while Chopin usually uses the term Nocturne for something specific - a quiet, introspective piano piece - Field tends to use the same term for any sort of free-form piano piece. Furthermore, the very higher degree of complexity and expression with Chopin, the more spicyness one might say, makes him more subtle to me, just the way that Haydn and Mozart relates to for instance Kozeluch, Vanhal or Pleyel. But to each his own.
And I also appreciate that minor composers are presented, since this has been something that fascinates me. For instance I love the music of Friedrich Kuhlau, the German who played an important role in Danish musical life in the early 19th century.
Kuhlau is herostratically known as the "sultan of sonatinas" because he had to earn his living by composing quite simple piano pieces for amateurs. But he also managed to write some nice operas, a piano concerto and some very fine chamber music. His forte was surprisingly enough writing for the flute - surprisingly because he didn't play the instrument himself - which gave him another much more flattering nick-name; "Beethoven of the flute". For me at least this quintet is a master piece:


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Oh, and in case anybody wonders; he destroyed his right eye in a childhood accident.
 
Richard Cribb said:
I am sorry, but I simply can't agree. The way I see it, Field's music is quite simply much less good than Chopin's. When listening to field, and his uncomplicated admittedly beautiful melody-orientated music, I associate it with people like Moscheles, Kalkbrenner, Herz, Hiller etc. All good men but not quite in Chopin's league. Furthermore while it seems like while Chopin usually uses the term Nocturne for something specific - a quiet, introspective piano piece - Field tends to use the same term for any sort of free-form piano piece. Furthermore, the very higher degree of complexity and expression with Chopin, the more spicyness one might say, makes him more subtle to me, just the way that Haydn and Mozart relates to for instance Kozeluch, Vanhal or Pleyel. But to each his own.
Click to expand...

It is quite possible that the lesser known Field simply was incapable of the exuberance displayed by Chopin; however, this isn't the issue. The more subdued version of the nocturne presented by Field - as opposed to, as you say, the higher degree of complexity and expression with Chopin - is precisely what subtlety implies. Moreover, contrary to your assertion that Chopin manages to include greater complexity and expression within the context of the nocturne style contradicts what you say about him restricting himself to the quiet, introspective manner associated with the nocturne. It is even possible that Chopin's very virtuosity made it impossible for him to restrict himself to sheer quietness when using the nocturne form. A nocturne should not be 'spicy', I think; it is (or was) not the purpose of the nocturne. But perhaps we are merely arguing about terms here.

At any rate, when it comes to subtlety in music, the true master was - and is - ofcourse Bach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmW92wOdRdI&feature=related

Comparing the harpsichord, as just quoted by the indomitable Mr Cribb, to the piano, it is easy to hear which is the more subtle instrument, especially with Bach seemingly simple Well-Tuned Keyboard (literally what Wohltemperierted Klavier means):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGPJDgp2-9A&feature=related
 
JEELEN said:
It is quite possible that the lesser known Field simply was incapable of the exuberance displayed by Chopin; however, this isn't the issue. The more subdued version of the nocturne presented by Field - as opposed to, as you say, the higher degree of complexity and expression with Chopin - is precisely what subtlety implies. Moreover, contrary to your assertion that Chopin manages to include greater complexity and expression within the context of the nocturne style contradicts what you say about him restricting himself to the quiet, introspective manner associated with the nocturne. It is even possible that Chopin's very virtuosity made it impossible for him to restrict himself to sheer quietness when using the nocturne form. A nocturne should not be 'spicy', I think; it is (or was) not the purpose of the nocturne. But perhaps we are merely arguing about terms here.
Click to expand...
I am not going to turn this into a discussion thread, after all one shouldn't discuss tastes, and I get what you are saying; I simply disagree. So let me just try to clarify what I already tried to express, while also emphasizing that I in no way intend to be disrespectful to you or your opinion. On the contrary, while we seem to have very different preferences (seems to me that I am more of a HIPster, for instance), I highly appreciate your input and hope you will continue your valuable contribution to this thread. Anyway, to me sublety is usually connected with quality, and the good mr.Field is just that - good, compared to pan Chopin who is exceptionally good not to say great. Also, I see no contradiction in being more refined and complex and being quiet - as opposed to loud - as you yourself assert with presenting the Goldberg-variations, which is a sterling example of just that. Finally, my contention is that while Chopin is stringent with the nocturne term, Field is not. But again, each to his own. I have made my point as good as I am able to and will let it rest with that.
Now for something completely different. While I usually prefer rather old music, I also have a decent collection of 20th century music and I am quite fond of the second Viennese schoool. This concerto of Alban Berg is splendid.
Chamber Concerto for Piano and Violin with 13 Wind Instruments performed by Ensemble InterContemporain led by Pierre Boulez with Daniel Barenboim, piano and
Pinchas Zukerman, violin

Link to video.

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Niels Wilhelm Gade is perhaps not a household name today, but he was a force to be reckoned with in his time. According to a famous Danish bonmot, Verdi wrote music of the street, while Gade wrote music of value (A play of words; Verdi means value in Danish, and Gade street)!
Be as that may, Mendelssohn and Schumann were among those who appreciated him. Gade wrote among other things 8 symphonies, of which I prefer no.1, which actually had its premiere in Leipzig and was a stunning success.
This version is with the Danish National Symphony Orchestra conducted by Christopher Hogwood.

Link to video.

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Now to continue with another side of the most worthy mr. Hogwood, a champion of that most fascinating instrument which is the clavichord...
Here is one and an half hour in the company of the magnificent mr. Handel.

Link to video.
 
When it comes to music from the baroque and classical era I have a clear preference for period instrument ensembles and search for historical authencity. Indeed I have almost only that in my own CD collection.The symphony below, by Boccherini in C minor (op. 41, G.519) illustrates in my opinion very well the strength of such an approach, and hopefully shows that he was much more than a rococo fancy man.
The orchestra performing is Tafelmusik from Canade, led by Jeanne Lamont. I must say, though, that from the 5 versions I have of this excellent piece, I prefer the one of the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin, but I couldn't find that on the net. however, no reason to worry, this one is good too.



Link to video.


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I think that one can easily agree that the piece below is pretty decent for having been composed by a 9 years old lad.
This is from the, to my knowledge, the only box set with Mozart's entirely symphonic output. A true feast for everybody who appreciates his music, and who wouldn't?

Link to video.
 
Richard Cribb said:
Yes that is the passa calle. Since I noticed in another thread that you have a high opinion of Charles Ives, the whole composition should interest you, as it resembles some of his works in that it is a depiction of Madrid at night with church bells, religious prossessions, street dance, a military regiment advancing and retreating and what not, a bit like some of Ives' musical sketches from American city life.
Click to expand...

I've heard it before. Liked it very much. The Passa calle has a certain "something," though, that keeps bringing me back to it.

Anyway, it is interesting that Boccherini, who lived in Spain for over half his life composed so little in specifically Spanish style. However when he did he did it well. The fandango from guitar quintet no.4 is all but riveting. I know few better antidotes for gloominess.

Link to video.
Click to expand...

That was delightful. Thanks for sharing!
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
That was delightful. Thanks for sharing!
Click to expand...
You are most welcome. Hearing Boccherini properly was a revelation for me, when I grew up there were (almost) no such thing as an historically informed performance , they basically played everything the same way, which sometimes much less than satisfactory results, to be diplomatic.
The same with Beethoven actually. Before Norrington came with his cycle somewhere back in the late eighties (I think), one had to suffer through people like Karajan, Böhm, Bernstein etc, with their (too) large orchestras, sterility, grandeur and megalomanism. I personally am not so fond of Norrington even if I have his cycle too, but he deserves accolade for being a trailblazer.
I wrote all this just to inform that I managed to retrieve me Beethoven cycle with Anima Eterna and Immerseel, and that one is real good. So the next day I am going to take one Beethoven symphony a day. So here we go, starting with the first one, an indication of things to come if nothing else:


Link to video.
 
And so comes "a hideously writhing, wounded dragon that refuses to die, but writhing in its last agonies and, in the fourth movement, bleeding to death." :rolleyes:

Link to video.
 
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