What are your thoughts on BitCoin?

[Crezth]

That's not a solution because you will still have vast stores uncirculated, with no controls as regards their expenditure, and the looming issue of major commercial disparity, such as old stores of bitcoins thousands strong, unspent until bitcoins are counted in the millionths! It's fundamentally stagnant.

 

[Zelig]

That's not a solution because you will still have vast stores uncirculated, with no controls as regards their expenditure, and the looming issue of major commercial disparity, such as old stores of bitcoins thousands strong, unspent until bitcoins are counted in the millionths! It's fundamentally stagnant.

So what's the problem?

 

[Crezth]

Nothing you can do with bitcoins you can't do better and more safely than with usd

 

[Zelig]

Nothing you can do with bitcoins you can't do better and more safely than with usd

Unless you don't live in America.

 

[Silurian]

Unless you don't live in America.

Then you can use the pound, euro, yen etc

 

[Zelig]

Then you can use the pound, euro, yen etc

Bitcoin has more utility to me than any of those.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Bitcoin has more utility to me than any of those.

But not more utility than Canadian dollars, which was the point you just dodged.

 

[Zelig]

But not more utility than Canadian dollars, which was the point you just dodged.

I didn't dodge that point:

For me, CAD > USD > bitcoins > everything else

That still makes bitcoins the #3 currency out of about 182 different currencies.

Pretty much everyone with an internet connection will find more utility with bitcoins than with almost any other currency. It's irrelevant that bitcoins aren't the #1 currency for anyone.

 

[dutchfire]

Nothing you can do with bitcoins you can't do better and more safely than with usd

Imagine I make a small bet on #fiftychat with Zelig. Naturally, I lose. I want to give Zelig his hard-earned money (so he can buy a bottle of booze). I expect Bitcoin is superior to USD in this regard.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I didn't dodge that point:

So you addressed it elsewhere but you still dodged the point when it was made again. While I'm sure it's tedious to have to address the same point a second or third time, your answer was still a dodge. He was saying that the currency of whatever country you live in will have the most utility. You took the semantic route with your answer there, which was really a non-answer to his point, neither here nor there.

 

[Zelig]

So you addressed it elsewhere but you still dodged the point when it was made again. While I'm sure it's tedious to have to address the same point a second or third time, your answer was still a dodge. He was saying that the currency of whatever country you live in will have the most utility. You took the semantic route with your answer there, which was really a non-answer to his point, neither here nor there.

I have no idea what you mean.

I've answered the point.

 

[Silurian]

I didn't dodge that point:

That still makes bitcoins the #3 currency out of about 182 different currencies.

Pretty much everyone with an internet connection will find more utility with bitcoins than with almost any other currency. It's irrelevant that bitcoins aren't the #1 currency for anyone.

So if you visited Japan regularly the list would be

CAD > USD > Yen > bitcoins > everything else

If you visted Mexico regular but less than Japan the list would be

CAD > USD > Yen > Peso > bitcoins > everything else

etc

 

[Souron]

You can't sell it that easily, thats the whole point and the stuff you can buy is quite limited. I can't go to the grocery store and buy food with bitcoins, I can with cash.

You can only buy a narrow range of things from a narrow range of sellers with bitcoin.

But if there was a bust in the local fiat currency, then merchants would be more willing to take bitcoins. That's what you're hedging against, in that scenario.

All they have to do is steal your laptop. That would look a little less suspicious than carrying many bars of gold out the door. No?

A break in is a break in. However, there's more you can do to protect data than physical commodities. You can't encrypt a bar of gold. Really keeping gold in your house isn't a good idea. If your neighbors knew you were selling gold, they might be tempted to break in and search the place. Bitcoins are more inconspicuous.

 

[Crezth]

That still makes bitcoins the #3 currency out of about 182 different currencies.

What an asinine suggestion.

 

[Souron]

Why would you need anything(including bitCoins) except USD if your in the states? Currency has to have something backing it to be worth its weight. Bitcoin has nothing backing it, its not insured anywhere. Also I can exchange Francs and Marks at most Banks, which you can't do with Bitcoin. But thats moot now since they've both converted to Euro. Bitcoin isn't recognized by any country except maybe the people who engage in illegal activities.

That's kind of the point. Bitcoins are not dependent on any national policy for their value. Bitcoins are backed by the verifiable security of the protocol used to trade bitcoins. Your bitcoin wallet does not have a bank, so it is immune to bank runs, except in so far as bank runs effect the economy at large.

I agree that bitcoins are a bubble market right now, but they are no worse than gold in that respect.

 

[Crezth]

Well, you do have to download the complete transaction history of all bitcoins before you can make a transaction yourself. That's not really a bank, though - it's much stupider.

 

[Souron]

Well, you do have to download the complete transaction history of all bitcoins before you can make a transaction yourself.

As far as I know, this is no longer the case.

 

[Zelig]

Okay?

So if you visited Japan regularly the list would be

CAD > USD > Yen > bitcoins > everything else

If you visted Mexico regular but less than Japan the list would be

CAD > USD > Yen > Peso > bitcoins > everything else

etc

Yes?

What an asinine suggestion.

Excellent counter-point.

 

[Symphony D.]

As far as I know, this is no longer the case.

Yeah, no.

Bitcoin’s growing popularity is having other ripple effects. Every participant in the system must keep a copy of the block chain, which now exceeds 11 gigabytes in size and continues to grow steadily. This alone deters casual use. Bitcoin’s designer proposed a method of pruning the chain to include only unspent amounts, but it has not been implemented.

As the rate of transactions increases, squeezing all financial activity into the preset size limit for each block has started to become problematic. The protocol may need to be tweaked to allow more transactions per block, among other changes. A further problem relates to the volunteer machines, or nodes, that allow Bitcoin to function. These nodes relay transactions and transmit updates to the block chain. But, says Matthew Green, a security researcher at Johns Hopkins University, the ecosystem provides no compensation for maintaining these nodes—only for mining. The rising cost of operating nodes could jeopardise Bitcoin’s ability to scale.

This is the price to be paid when your "currency" is stupid and requires everyone to be informed of every transaction: massive bandwidth wastage simply to inform everyone of transactions, correspondent throttling of total transactions, and ridiculous file sizes given the data stored.

Also, it's not even secure for all that effort.

 

[Zelig]

your "currency" is stupid

More great arguments.