What do we want in Civ 6?

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Atlas

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With an anticipated release date of late-2015 and the fact that developement has almost certainly not started yet.

We should begin to think about what we as a community would like in the next iteration- I am thinking big ideas not minutia. Gotta get our ideas firmed up before the devs start a Civ 6.

Hex tiles?

1 unit per tile?

How to limit expansion (aka preventing the early game farmer gambit, the past this has been Corruption & maintainence)?


Multiplayer?

How should Diplomacy work?

-Atlas
 
I guess the first sign development is about to start will be Firaxis repossessing that domain name.

Please keep hex tiles but relax the unit per tile rule.

Expansion: I'm thinking abolish global happiness and go back to increasing city maintenance but no building based one. (Civ IV)

Diplomacy: I'm thinking restore significant different personalities; this actually degraded in Civ V from the CD release [side effect of the patch that weakened base defenses from prior super-strong] (Continue to have the Mongols be very land envyious, but have the more peaceful civs not develop "land envy")
 
Keep the hex and 1UPT (back bone of the new combat system. You never have to contend with the RNG ever again! Plus, proper ranged Combat).
Keep the leader Animations and interface.
The importance of Gold could probably scaled back a bit.

Although, some Civ 4 elements would be nice. Such as The Victory Conditions (these seem more thought out than the ones here. Domination while being peaceful the whole time? Sign me up!) and city maintenance (that is, no Building and Unit Maintenance and free roads).

I also liked how in Civ 4, you need to research Currency (?) before you can trade Gold. Being able to trade Gold since the dawn of man to when Mechs walk the earth implies that there is only one global currency and that's too close to Revelations for comfort (although, there is a real-world impetus for this. As economies collapse, the only hedge you have for the new world would be precious metals).

Combine some others, for example: keep all happiness local to your cities until trade routes between your cities get established, but now connected resources will only provide a certain percentage to other cities. Probably provide the happiness only when the resource is worked. Also, keep the UA/UB thing but also provide leader traits.

And refine completely: Diplomacy.
 
Local Happiness (instead of empire-wide).

Foreign trade routes.

Deeper espionage and religion systems, and deeper diplomacy (cassus belli would be nice).

Definitely keep 1UPT and the hexes.

Most importantly: Better AI.
 
The best I hope for would be new changes, equally revolutionary to the series as hex and 1UPT were, so I can maybe become a big Civ fan again.

1UPT and the game design changes to support this (generally low production, global happiness etc.) really soured me on Civ5.
So ... make actual armies as in CtP. Or make xUPT, as in Master of Magic, preferrably with tactical (1UPT!) combat on a different map (I know, not gonna happen because the miniscule percentage of civ players ever playing MP needs to be catered).
Heck, I'm onboard with even more drastic changes, as long as the game is as different from Civ5 as possible.
_____
rezaf
 
*Keep 1UPT and hexes

*Refine the game so it doesn't require a 2k super rig to play it with all graphics on with a huge map. (Disclosure: I have a super rig and I still wait 30 seconds end turn times late game)

*Continue teaching AI how to utilize tactics in 1UPT

*Keep new religion system, slightly refine the new espionage system but otherwise keep it

*Add more diplomacy options
 
* Cassus Belli (with varieties of and investment/difficulty increasing with Age)

* More emergent civ characteristics and abilities, based on past actions, terrain, perhaps even 'picks' at the start as many space 4x games have

* A fun system of revolutions, social factionalism, empire splits etc. - basically not to just limit the player's enemies to other nation states, which seems somewhat reductive

* Representation of significant developments in more modern human history hitherto often ignored or trivilised in civ (certainly in civV) with new systems in place to explore them e.g. not +20% gold style representations. Including the following: industrialisation, capitalism, terrorism, environmental damage, multinational corporations, class war

* No more 'humour'

* Diplomacy presented as something more than barter. A system for concepts like bluffing, threatening, sucking up. Depth and a roleplaying element to be present.

* Change in scale of 'pieces' over time to avoid later game tedium of dealing with hundreds of cities/units. Start by moving around individual units and building with cities, while by the end of the game I want each vast territory or army to be represented as one 'piece' in the game.
 
+1 on the Cassus Belli

Improve AI in regards to 1UPT (Keep 1UPT!)
 
* Cassus Belli (with varieties of and investment/difficulty increasing with Age)

* Diplomacy presented as something more than barter. A system for concepts like bluffing, threatening, sucking up. Depth and a roleplaying element to be present.

* Change in scale of 'pieces' over time to avoid later game tedium of dealing with hundreds of cities/units. Start by moving around individual units and building with cities, while by the end of the game I want each vast territory or army to be represented as one 'piece' in the game.

+1 to all of these. Particularly the last one, I haven't heard that before but it's f'ing brilliant!:goodjob:
 
Keep the hex and 1UPT (back bone of the new combat system. You never have to contend with the RNG ever again! Plus, proper ranged Combat).
Keep the leader Animations and interface.
The importance of Gold could probably scaled back a bit.

Adopt something similar to the Civ IV approach - you can only buy things with gold once you reach the appropriate technology (Civ IV did it with civics, but in Civ V you can't make an ability that critical a Social Policy). Even if this is only Currency it means no early settler/worker gold spam or gold rush armies. In terms of the tech tree it also represents a choice between early rushing to RAs or early rushing to Currency on a different strand of the tech tree.

Although, some Civ 4 elements would be nice. Such as The Victory Conditions (these seem more thought out than the ones here. Domination while being peaceful the whole time? Sign me up!)

Thought out in a different way - I'm not sure it's a sign of being better thought-out that two of the victory conditions were essentially identical except for the proportion of the population/land you needed to control (diplo was autowin if over 50%, domination if over - IIRC - 70).

Then again with the reshuffled tech tree it's not very well thought-out that you need higher tech to get diplomatic victory in Civ V than to get space victory, and that the tech paths leading to each don't diverge that much until very late in the game. All victories except Domination are more heavily tech-dependent than in previous Civs. Domination is fine; "peaceful domination" is called diplomacy, and it should be the case that the two victory conditions have separate play requirements to achieve.

and city maintenance (that is, no Building and Unit Maintenance and free roads).

This was one of the weakest elements of Civ IV, and I like the addition of road maintenance costs. It's possible it might work slightly better with Civ V's slower production rates, but there's nothing interesting strategically about a game where you can build infinite duplicates of every building you want without penalty, and in which production times are so fast that you can even do it without meaningful trade-offs between producing units and producing buildings.

It was also simply a flawed design concept, as were its predecessors - city maintenance and corruption existed for one reason only: to try and ban a particular strategy (ICS). Civ V certainly hasn't hit the nail on the head in its attempt to rebalance tall vs. wide, but it's a better approach to try and make alternative approaches competitive rather than design a system in which one way of playing is so inherently superior to all others that it has to be actively restricted or prevented in order to allow for more varied playstyles. So far Civ V has developed a system that works at the extremes - "true" ICS with one city literally everywhere you can place one is doable but is a weaker strategy than most alternatives - but not for most forms of play: until you reach those extremes, wide beats tall in most cases (selection of tall-focused civs notwithstanding).

I also liked how in Civ 4, you need to research Currency (?) before you can trade Gold. Being able to trade Gold since the dawn of man to when Mechs walk the earth implies that there is only one global currency and that's too close to Revelations for comfort (although, there is a real-world impetus for this. As economies collapse, the only hedge you have for the new world would be precious metals).

The earliest Civ games (maybe just Civ, but I think also Civ II) had Trade as an early technology, and nothing was tradeable until you'd reached it (Civ I also had trade caravans as the only mechanism for trade, and these were unlocked only with this technology). That would be nice to have back (the Trade technology, not the caravans). So Trade would unlock trade in luxury resources (barter, effectively), and Currency trade in gold - I think that would be a good system.

Combine some others, for example: keep all happiness local to your cities until trade routes between your cities get established, but now connected resources will only provide a certain percentage to other cities. Probably provide the happiness only when the resource is worked. Also, keep the UA/UB thing but also provide leader traits.

Mechanically, happiness local to cities doesn't perform the same function as global happiness. Adding some kind of local-scale population management seems likely in a later incarnation of the game, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the global happiness system and would serve a different purpose - likely production lost (population refuses to work tiles) if the city is "unhappy" rather than the global growth penalty. It would be similar to the Civ IV dual management system (happiness and health), but without the redundancy introduced by both being local scale and being managed in essentially the same way.

And refine completely: Diplomacy.

For the first time in the series, Civ diplomacy now has a strong baseline from which to work - the system is a very good basis for the additions of further options (not to mention AI improvements) rather than just a trade window to which extra types of modifiers can be added. This is I think the case with much that's in Civ V - it all feels like a very promising base for subsequent games (while Civ IV represented more the pinnacle of what can be wrung out of what was by then an increasingly dated game engine).

1UPT and the game design changes to support this (generally low production, global happiness etc.) really soured me on Civ5

I'm not sure where the common belief that these are intrinsically linked springs from. There's no requirement at all for 1UPT to slow production for anything other than units. I don't see any link at all to global happiness, which is a maintenance system to limit population. Rather Civ V's engine is designed around trade-offs - production is slower in order to force the player to make choices about what to build when rather than just spamming anything and everything because there's little or no cost to doing so. Global happiness is a constraint on ICS-type strategies that works by giving you a fixed amount of "population points" (happiness) that you essentially distribute around the landscape, either as many in a few cities, a few in many cities, or various permutations inbetween. It's like a slider for city size vs. number.

* More emergent civ characteristics and abilities, based on past actions, terrain, perhaps even 'picks' at the start as many space 4x games have

Space 4x games have the advantage that they aren't working with factions intended to represent historical civs. Civilization isn't a game about "building an empire" - any number of games do that. It's a game about "building the Roman/Mayan/Incan/Siamese/etc. empire". It's a large part of the point and the feel that civs have their set, defined characteristics. Something like a 'reputation' system that, based on past actions, affects how other civs see you (now common in most empire games, although in most cases this is a fixed racial trait rather than something that changes over time) would be a nice addition, though.

* A fun system of revolutions, social factionalism, empire splits etc. - basically not to just limit the player's enemies to other nation states, which seems somewhat reductive

I miss the civil wars from past games, but it's a key element of Civ - and indeed of most 4x games -that your rivals are indeed comparable empires to your own; other elements turn up as random events, but the barbarians, pirates, rebels etc. are not major enemies, and in most gameplay senses behave just like other civs anyway. I wonder if they could add something like Sins of a Solar Empire's or Distant Worlds' bribery system, where you can "bid" with other civs to pay off the barbarians so they'll attack your rival instead.

* Representation of significant developments in more modern human history hitherto often ignored or trivilised in civ (certainly in civV) with new systems in place to explore them e.g. not +20% gold style representations. Including the following: industrialisation, capitalism, terrorism, environmental damage, multinational corporations, class war

Class war is hardly something relevant in a Civ-type game; capitalism is covered under policy/civic selections and consequent effects on diplomacy (although selecting Commerce doesn't have any diplomatic ramifications). Most of the others have been treated in past Civs; Civ V handles religion better than Civ IV did, it may be able to revive corporations and make them work (could be a late-game way of using some of those strategic resources you won't otherwise get much use from, or of generating new resources the way mercantile CSes do). I don't know why environmental damage was removed from Civ V - I'd be fine with re-adding a pollution/global warming mechanic.

* Diplomacy presented as something more than barter. A system for concepts like bluffing, threatening, sucking up. Depth and a roleplaying element to be present.

Civ V represents an advance in that regard, but I agree more can be done. You can certainly be threatened (I remember a game where Attila parked rams nearby then popped up to ask if I minded him bullying a city-state under my protection). And it's hard not to see the guy who denounces you for half the game but is never in a position to do anything about it as doing anything other than bluffing. But a lot of these are concepts that exist in the interpretation - it's not something you can really program in mechanically. Where I see Attila engaging in gunboat diplomacy, someone else might just see a "Sorry I bullied your CS - choose Option A or Option B" screen.

* Change in scale of 'pieces' over time to avoid later game tedium of dealing with hundreds of cities/units. Start by moving around individual units and building with cities, while by the end of the game I want each vast territory or army to be represented as one 'piece' in the game.

I think a 'control group' system would resolve this, and as such it's just an interface issue. Let me select more than one unit at a time (with shift-click or ctrl-click), set a destination, and the whole group will move there. Stick arrows on the city bars and the city interface screen so that you can scroll immediately to the next rather than having to locate it on the map or in the Cities screen.
 
I would keep the hexes, but do away with 1UPT on the strategic level map. Instead, when conducting a tactical battle, action would move to a separate tactical map generated based on the defender's hex. Units would be deployed on the tactical map and combat resolved on a different time scale, allowing factors such as night and weather to be brought into play. All of this would also require investment of dev cycles into the tactical AI.

I would do away with the unique powers and bring back traits, because it's more easily balanced. For example, in Civ4 if I'm Financial, there's a good chance some of my rivals are as well.

Alternately, they could make the unique powers behave something like quest objectives. You get a unique advantage but you have to do something to earn it, like building a bunch of a specific unit or building, burning a great person, or something like that. And other civs could beat you to the punch.

I don't need fancy leader animations. I wouldn't miss individual leaders at all.
 
Perhaps this could be what you(and me) are looking for:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=425972

Such idea would change gameplay in Civ6 as much as 1UPT changed Civ5 .

If the DLL code ever had been released, this idea of yours could probably be realized in Civ5 already, so it's not that revolutionary.
Not bad, mind you, but not revolutionary, either.

I had an idea for a mod of removing settlers completely. Players would only found their culture with the first city, and then population and your empire would spread with little means to control it yourself. You'd still build SOME stuff IN the cities, basically all combat units and a lot of government buildings, but not the cities themselves or farms and stuff. These would spring up by themselves, and you'd control your culture, mainly - like in Civ4, terrain could switch owners because one has a stronger culture.
I even made a basic proof-of-concept implementation back in the early Civ5 days, but written in script entirely it had lots of limitations (Civ5 offers too few events) and was horribly SLOW. I've since grown a long white beard waiting for the DLL to be released...

Anyway, I DO hope Firaxis doesn't go the "basically keep civ5" route many posting here are suggesting. Why have Civ6 in the first place?
_____
rezaf
 
I would keep the hexes, but do away with 1UPT on the strategic level map. Instead, when conducting a tactical battle, action would move to a separate tactical map generated based on the defender's hex. Units would be deployed on the tactical map and combat resolved on a different time scale, allowing factors such as night and weather to be brought into play. All of this would also require investment of dev cycles into the tactical AI.

Or you could just pick up a Total War game since the strategic elements of these and Civ already converge (and the trend in recent entries in both series is towards mechanical simplification, forcing strategic decisions at the expense of larger numbers of options, and reducing micromanagement), and this would just do the same to the tactical ones.

I would do away with the unique powers and bring back traits, because it's more easily balanced. For example, in Civ4 if I'm Financial, there's a good chance some of my rivals are as well.

It's more balanced in principle than in practice (in Civ 4 it was noted that certain trait combinations are stronger than others, as well as certain traits - Spiritual civs would generally be at a disadvantage because one of their traits wasn't generally useful). But more than that it's just desperately characterless - I'd take the generally minor imbalances in Civ V over Civ IV's system, and it's not obviously more unbalanced in practice. Either way the system gets tested and extremes ironed out.

Alternately, they could make the unique powers behave something like quest objectives. You get a unique advantage but you have to do something to earn it, like building a bunch of a specific unit or building, burning a great person, or something like that.

Like researching Theology, for instance?

And other civs could beat you to the punch.

Surely again this results in civs becoming generic and hence less "Civilization" than "empire builder", if any civ could potentially develop the same trait.

Anyway, I DO hope Firaxis doesn't go the "basically keep civ5" route many posting here are suggesting. Why have Civ6 in the first place?

Why have Civ II? Why have Civ IV? They added features, but neither changed the game as substantively as its predecessor. This almost seems to be the design cycle; develop the game, add a bit in its sequel, refresh with major changes, add a bit, refresh... If that pattern's deliberate Civ VI will likely be to Civ V what Civ IV was to Civ III - essentially the same mechanically but with a few additional features and minor changes.
 
Yeah it's funny how the cycle has gone with this series. The odd numbered games kick off revolutionary new features and ways to play. The evens refined the features of the last odd game.

Civ I was the foundation, a totally 2-D game
Civ II was a 2-D isometic game, very much in the style of Civ I (in this game SOD were basically impossible b/c if one unit in a stack was killed, the whole stack died with it)
Civ III entered the 3-D era and introduced SOD as a viable tactic, as well as the :spear: meme
Civ IV refined the 3-D and made SOD not only viable, but necessary. It also did a good job of burying the spearman meme
Civ V introduced hexes, 1UPT and city states. It also causes less than top-end computers to melt down.

Civ VI - ??? I'll bet it will be alot like Civ V but maybe less processor intensive (or speeds will have caught up that it's not as big of an issue)

Edit: Of course there are exceptions to this generic rule, but having played from Civ II through V, I just noticed this pattern. I'm not making a comment on any game being better than another. I've just noticed a trend that the odd numbered games take things in new directions, and evens tend to polish off the rough edges from the new features in the odds.
 
i would say keep the hex tile system and the 1 unit per tile as it makes combat more strategic rather than stockpiling all units in a few tiles

Yea. While it's a bit tedious (moving units around), it's quite enjoyable taking unit positioning into consideration.
 
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