fugazi
King
Initial expansion - I'm a cockroach 
What do you think is the weakest part of your game.
- Thread starter Gumbolt
- Start date
So really the Lib beeline would not be as powerful if some AIs went for it as well? If this is the case, perhaps it's worth changing the AI techpaths in Better AI. Come to think of it, last Better AI game I noticed Pacal seemed to sort of beeline Communism through Liberalism.
Skallagrimson
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2006
- Messages
- 2,043
That's a pretty good insight there: rhythm. After all, everything boils down to pace, speed, turn advantage, and at the higher levels things just go CRAZY. Even following a walk-through, I really just can't believe how easy it is for the deity-bragger doing his "this is how you beat Emperor by building nothing but shiny wonders" walk-through, and yet when I shadow on a different map and try to match the steps, goals, techs, build queues, etc., I just get absolutely massacred. I settle three cities by the time the AIs have 20, they're crowding me in, and all they have to do is cough a few times and my little hamlet full of pyramids and various stone monuments is blown away.
I just.... don't... get it.
I know "intellectually" what all the pieces of advice are. "Chop", okay, I can chop. "Whip", okay, I can whip. "Dot map", okay, I can dot map. The minute components of these strategies, I can nail down just fine. But to weave it all together at a pace that matches these frustrating walk-throughs that make it look easy... I just freaking give up.
I just suck too bad to even play Monarch most of the time, so screw it, back to Prince.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,993
Assuming you micro properly, what probably holds you back is diplo and tech path. Optimal tech path varies wildly across difficulty levels. I find a major break between monarch/emp and immortal when it comes to trading for monarchy vs self-research, for example. Even on EMP lately it seems like the AIs just get it TOO SLOWLY, and I want to grow my cities NOW, so I have to self-research it or sit at a lower cap longer.
Now, proper micro implies some tile working and expansion priorities. 6 cities will do for the early game although more is nicer. Your first 2-3 settlers should be out pretty fast though, to block land and set you up to fill more.
Again, though, the timing changes a bit, and so does distance costs. Without repeatedly playing openings at a new level it's difficult to adjust, although diplo and tech whoring can go a LONG, LONG way to making weak play look stronger. Some of my recent LHC games are a good example of this - 3 straight immortal wins with lower level games having a higher tech rate but losing. That's not superior micro by me, or war ability, or anything but flat out diplo abuse. Trades are the greatest beaker multiplier in the game and isolating a target out of the trades will drop it back lightning fast.
you don't need a big city for glbe theater.The Globe Theater.
I think I've built it maybe once, even then it was late game. I know its merits (drafting powerhouse city), I just always forget, or never have a huge city with happy issues (I always use that one civic, um, the one where each military unit gives +1)
I'm still waiting to try Dave's Catapult Globe Theater trick but again, I rarely deviate to drama, let alone build 8 theaters (I play HUGE) to then be allowed to build globe.
I've used once a simple 2 fishes city for permanent draft.
this is kind of impressive.
I'm a very thoughtful person, putting a lot of brains into things, and I struggle at emperor (well, in the HoF I have a deity win or 2, I even have a top spot on immortal, but it's HoF, not a "barbs on and random neighbours" game)
I saw a lot of answers already, but this is somehow odd.
You never tried a cultural victory?
easy to solve.Initial expansion - I'm a cockroach
1) Play a land map.
2) build only the following sequence until you reach 0% on the tech slider
- worker
- warrior
- settler
3) cottage up the place.
4) enjoy your new style.
L-Plate Ruler
Warlord
After reading noto2's post on choking (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=310142) it's apparent (amongst many other things) I don't attack smart. I just raid the city leaving existing infrastructure in place. I see now it's better to shut that mine down than draw the war out by n number of turns.
With my attacks made smarter I could even go to war before I get armour, that would be a novelty
With my attacks made smarter I could even go to war before I get armour, that would be a novelty
Hi
1) City placement, NO clue about how to do that right. I always end up looking later and seeing them and thinking sheesh if that one was just ONE tile over this way or that way it would have been a AWESOME city. Most times mine are either too close or to far appart. And in games like NC or LHC when I look at other players maps I NEVER end up picking same city sites as most of the others :/.
2) micromanaging tiles in a city. I always read wlak throughs like in sis's alc games where they say things like "I worked this tile until this thing was built then as soon as it was finished I worked this tile" I hardly ever do anything like that.
2) tech pathing --I read people saying things like "I needed this tech A so I reasearched tech B first to lower the beakers needed for A" NO clue what techs lower beakers for what.
3) economies -- NEVER done a CE or SE economy. I just do what I do and if nebody asks just says "uhm it's a.. it's a ummm 'hybrid' yeah thats what it is"
4) tech trading--really no clue as to what is good trade or bad trade. I cant ever really tech broker. Half the time even when I TRY they wont trade what I want grrr.
5) Diplomacy I hardly ever TRY to get AI to friendly. NOO Idea how to use vassals. HATE giving in to demands and 9/10 just refuse on principle. Especially if it an AI that been annoying me EVEN if it was in another games. Like I will think hay Vicky backstabbed me last game so NOOO way I am helping her this game. In fact depending on how bad they tciked me off sometimes the next game they show up in all of sudden PRIORITY of game is to make sure they die hehe.
And as for "diplomatic" wins. My idea of diplomatic win is bullying 5 vassals to vote for me so I can win. It is RARE (in fact I can think of only ONE game)where I win by another AI's who voted for me just cuz they were friendlier with me than with the other candidate.
6) waring: early game. late game, cross continental, naval war air wars ALL wars are a pain for me.
7)promoting units Im never good at picking promotions and HATE having units running round with that blue glow so I NEVER save promotions I just promote em as soon as they level just to get rid of it instead of saving them. My idea of "planning" promotions is like saying "ok we in gunpowder age and the tuffest ai's all have it so now all units gets pinch if they can" or "ok bw out now so a cpl of axes get combat then shock, a cpl spears will go up combat then formation EVERYTHING else get CR"
8) using units I kill off units waaaaaay to much. Some early wars I COUNT on half my army dying figuring ok I will be in negative while they marching over BUT once they take the capitol and pillage the rinky dink cities between gold from that and fact that at least half will end up daying I will end up MAKING gold by end of it. And you definitely do NOT want to end up in the siege core I would say LITERALLY 90% of my dead are siege units.
But THEN after awhile it ends up being opposite. SOme games there are a few units that been with me since they were axemen and now they are rifles or infantry or whatever. THOSE guys I get attactched to and try to protect them and never let them attack UNLESS I am sure they have good odds at not dying.
9)City managemnt. I like BIG PRETTY cities so I end up building LOTS of buildings in all my cities if I can
10) wonderchasing I LIKE the big shinies and get pouty when I cant get em. In fact cept for backstabbing me QUICKEST way an AI can move to top of the die list is to beat me to a wonder I want ESPECIALLY if I am already working on it but they build it first grrr.
And though I like em I hardly ever use em strateggically like unless making sure pottery all done before Oracle is finished so I can get MC counts I have NEVER done a "slingshot" of anything :/.
11) Teching it takes a LONG time to get beakers up to where I like em and for looong parts of game even in games I am doing good in I almost ALWAYS end up behind and have to catch up. It is VERY rare game where I am "most advanced" from start to finish
12)coorporations other than trying to always get Sushi and mining I never use em. I dont even know what techs open up the others.
13) hammers not that it hard for me to get em usually it just the opposite I focus waaaaay to much on hammers. Every guide pretty much talks about maximizing empire commerce or gold or beakers so I KNOW hammers hsould be lower priority. But it goes back to where I said I LIKE big pretty cities and to be big and pretty they HAVE to be able to build stuff. So even when I TRY to make a cottage city or heavy food city I end u moving it over to little less idae spot where it may lose a few flat tiles to get some mines or plains forest or SOMETHING so it can build stuff.
14) Paying attention: You DONT wanna know how MANY times I have build 'mids or teched monarchy or something and then several turns later "oops I forgot to switch out of despotism" or noticing a city I put on "wealth" at some point and then just left it there. That one reason I NEVER auto workers or automate ANYTHING if I can help it just cuz I KNOW I will end up forgetting about em. I mean even with taht pretty much ALL my games then get to modern era end with a cpl of poor caravals still sailing around on auto explore going "is she EVER gonna call us home the map was all explored AGES ago??"
And that JUST the SHORT list of things I need to get better on hehe. There are TONS of other things I need to get better at and I am sure TONS of other things I just dont realize I am doing bad just cuz I dont know enough about game yet to realize I am doing wrong :/.
Kaytie
It seems I have a twin sister
fugazi
King
Yeah, that's my main problem. I should squeeze out a few more workers, but you really don't want to see some of my early expansions. I happen to like leaders like Justinian and Joao.
Oh well, time to play another game on emperor.
Skallagrimson
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2006
- Messages
- 2,043
Diplo is probably a gigantic weakness of mine, come to think of it. I usually just try to match to favorite civics, and give into NON-TECH demands whenever. Fight sympathy wars, and I "think" I'm good, with "friends".
But, picking who the "friends" should be, I often have no clue. Just random "he's it".
He he, I was never good at tech brokering, so I just turned it off.
And I tend to spit in the face of any AI that demands jack from me, getting me into a lot of wars that could otherwise be avoided. I did well on Prince but getting over the "You want what? F&$# you!" habit has been a gamesaver on Monarch.
And I tend to spit in the face of any AI that demands jack from me, getting me into a lot of wars that could otherwise be avoided. I did well on Prince but getting over the "You want what? F&$# you!" habit has been a gamesaver on Monarch.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,993
On naval warfare vs the AI:
There's a cheesy workaround. Scout their cities. The AI tends to stick its large navy in one city. On the very first turn you declare, take this city amphibiously. It might cost you some extra units, but that cost is probably minimal compared to the 20-30 or more ships you just "sunk" (more like burned in port). After you do this even a minimal garrison for your transports should suffice.
Note that this tactic does not work if they declare on YOU however, so be careful with surprise dows or others coming to that AI's aid.
There's a cheesy workaround. Scout their cities. The AI tends to stick its large navy in one city. On the very first turn you declare, take this city amphibiously. It might cost you some extra units, but that cost is probably minimal compared to the 20-30 or more ships you just "sunk" (more like burned in port). After you do this even a minimal garrison for your transports should suffice.
Note that this tactic does not work if they declare on YOU however, so be careful with surprise dows or others coming to that AI's aid.
I'm really late to build the national wonders, and more importantly really late to pick sites for the national wonders, so I often find myself with e.g. the ideal Heroic Epic site already having gold/science improvements, or the ideal Globe site impossible to build since it's within 2 squares of an existing city.
I am slow to capture cities due to too little navy (for sailing to coastal cities instead of slogging through culture and STILL too little siege.
I'm still not much good at specializing cities, and I have never really managed to run an SE -- in fact only recently have I generated early non-wonder GP at all.
Do OK on Monarch though -- hopefully that will bring some hope to those afraid of that level. It's fairly heavy early micro that has brought me there, though.
I am slow to capture cities due to too little navy (for sailing to coastal cities instead of slogging through culture and STILL too little siege.
I'm still not much good at specializing cities, and I have never really managed to run an SE -- in fact only recently have I generated early non-wonder GP at all.
Do OK on Monarch though -- hopefully that will bring some hope to those afraid of that level. It's fairly heavy early micro that has brought me there, though.
dorkynorky
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2008
- Messages
- 177
My greatest weaknesses are
1) diplomacy, it amazes me how well the really good players can manage their opponents to keep them off their backs or even get them to do their bidding. I've tried to do better at this and am getting there slowly. In this I also include tech trading.
2) over expansion, in recent games I've built a lot of blocking cities too far out, when building a reasonable amount of cities closer to my capital would have put me in a better position to get those farther city sites after the AI had done all the work to develop them.
3) being too cautious when at war, I think that I spend too much time and too many troops garrisoning captured cities which ultimately drags out my wars by as much as 50%
1) diplomacy, it amazes me how well the really good players can manage their opponents to keep them off their backs or even get them to do their bidding. I've tried to do better at this and am getting there slowly. In this I also include tech trading.
2) over expansion, in recent games I've built a lot of blocking cities too far out, when building a reasonable amount of cities closer to my capital would have put me in a better position to get those farther city sites after the AI had done all the work to develop them.
3) being too cautious when at war, I think that I spend too much time and too many troops garrisoning captured cities which ultimately drags out my wars by as much as 50%
Weaknesses:
1) Micromanagement in general; tile assignments, specialists etc.
2) Espionage - other than sending in spies and stealing techs, I have never tried running an EE
3) I don't use Slavery/Drafting a lot (to their full potential); I use Slavery to build a rush army and whip Courthouses and such but stop later on.
I'm a semi-confident Emperor level player btw. I normally play Continents or Pangaea, Normal Speed, Choose Religions, everything else default.
1) Micromanagement in general; tile assignments, specialists etc.
2) Espionage - other than sending in spies and stealing techs, I have never tried running an EE
3) I don't use Slavery/Drafting a lot (to their full potential); I use Slavery to build a rush army and whip Courthouses and such but stop later on.
I'm a semi-confident Emperor level player btw. I normally play Continents or Pangaea, Normal Speed, Choose Religions, everything else default.
I've only stolen a handful of technologies, and never early in the game (last game I got Theology and Aesthetics, I think).
I believe Slavery loses its effectiveness as the game progresses. After you have your courthouses established (and the game progresses into the Medieval Ages), your core cities should be running higher population to make use of multiple improved tiles and specialists, whichever you choose. I thought my friend was crazy when he told me he whipped a wonder for a cost of 12 population...just because he could.
I believe Slavery loses its effectiveness as the game progresses. After you have your courthouses established (and the game progresses into the Medieval Ages), your core cities should be running higher population to make use of multiple improved tiles and specialists, whichever you choose. I thought my friend was crazy when he told me he whipped a wonder for a cost of 12 population...just because he could.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,993
Kremlin whipping with bio farms in filler cities is really scary. Of course even when it's inefficient it can be worthwhile to rapidly produce a sizeable force of advanced troops.
Ai Shizuka
King
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 856
After moving up to Emperor I think my early game is my main weakness. I very rarely manage it right: always expand too much or not enough, ending squeezed between multiple AIs or with a big empire but 79 turns for the next tech.
Lately I'm rolling A LOT of random starts, just to play them to 400-500 AD.
Something around 20% good games, 50% bad but manageable, 30% hopeless. Bad and hopeless are equally distributed between "too much" and "not enough".
Lately I'm rolling A LOT of random starts, just to play them to 400-500 AD.
Something around 20% good games, 50% bad but manageable, 30% hopeless. Bad and hopeless are equally distributed between "too much" and "not enough".
Similar threads
