What do you think of the PETA?

[Mr. Dictator]

see this is the idea that they have to get across. abolitionists had to fight the fight saying blacks wern't subhuman. and it would seem simply absurd now to respect the slaveholders opinions that they were, when it was clearly an atrocity

so why should people that view killing of other living things 'respect' the view of people who think it is morally correct to kill.

i cant seem to tell if your against or for my argument but i will say that i dont think its morally correct to kill, i just think that it isnt wrong to kill for food

 

[Abaddon]

right idea, wrong way to go about it.

 

[Elrohir]

the problem here is that you assumtions that is morraly correct to kill is clashing with my view that it isn't. you're drawing to a conclusion that i somehow condone killing jews because i am against killing a duck.

you're viewpoint is killing is okay, the point i'm trying to get across is killing is wrong.

But according to you, killing is not wrong if you're going to eat it. Contradiction?

Ugh, that comic book is horrible.
Comparing eating meat to the Holocaust is horrible.

They are disgraces to the human race and should be exiled.

The "Your Mommy kills animals prequal is worse.

 

[El_Machinae]

Most kids feel that eating animals is wrong, and they can have excellent consciences. If you harden a child against the idea of killing animals, what have you done, except reduce that child's empathy?

 

[MobBoss]

Most kids feel that eating animals is wrong, and they can have excellent consciences. If you harden a child against the idea of killing animals, what have you done, except reduce that child's empathy?

Improved their protein intake?

Most kids dont like eating brocolli either.

 

[El_Machinae]

You can get protein from non-meat, and you know that. As well, being fundamentally stricken with guilt is vastly different from just not wanting to eat something.

Forcing a child to do something they feel is wrong, seems to be wrong.

 

[.Shane.]

Most kids feel that eating animals is wrong, and they can have excellent consciences.

I really have to disagree. You've made 2 extremely broad and sweeping statements that I have never seen any evidence to support.

You haven't even defined "kids". Do you mean 4 year olds? 16 year olds?

If you're gonna try and draw one of these pseudo-intellectual pictures of childhood as some kind of natural and pure state and therefore we can "learn" from the attitudes of children....

 

[El_Machinae]

Actually, kids can have lousy consciences too - if my experience burning ants is any indication.

Their empathy is a tricky thing. Sometimes they'll cry if they see a mouse killed. Othertimes they're willing to hurt people without a care.

 

[MobBoss]

You can get protein from non-meat, and you know that.

And you also know that isnt going to cut it for a childs development either. Kids need protein in the form of animal products - bean curd just isnt going to cut it.

As well, being fundamentally stricken with guilt is vastly different from just not wanting to eat something.

Uh...what are you on about? Kids dont walk around grief stricken over the fact that they eat meat. In fact, most kids that I know LIKE hamburgers and hot dogs. Very, very few dont. My kids never, ever, expressed any remorse over the fact that they ate little chickens, cows, piggies or lambs. The only way they would feel guilty about it, is if some wanker from PETA tries to make them feel guilty about it, by making it seem like something is wrong from eating meat.

Forcing a child to do something they feel is wrong, seems to be wrong.

Who's forcing? Just put a hot dog in front of a kid and see if they dont eat it. Or a burger, or a porkchop or a chicken leg...or a.....dang..now I am getting hungry.

 

[.Shane.]

Actually, kids can have lousy consciences too - if my experience burning ants is any indication.

My experience as a parent reinforces a tabula rasa view of children. They don't have much of a conscience, either way. Its something they learn, constantly, from their environment.

If, say, a 5 year old doesn't want to eat something because a poor animal was killed its most likely this is a message they picked up from someone or something. It may be as simple as it reminds them of a cartoon animal character. But its not because of some inherent human sensitivity toward animals.

More on-topic. Man is, by nature omnivorus. Its normal and natural for a human to eat meat. This inherently means animals must die.

Now, that doesn't mean that humanity doesn't eat too much meat or that we couldn't deal w/ animal husbandry in a more humane fashion. And, yes, there are healthy alternatives for protein. Sure. You bet.

But, that's not what PETA is after. They have some moral stick up their a$$ that people should not eat animals period. And, then, they try to make their point through all kinds of ridiculous behaviors, from the simply stupid to the highly illegal and dangerous.

 

[Narz]

And you also know that isnt going to cut it for a childs development either. Kids need protein in the form of animal products - bean curd just isnt going to cut it.

Patently false. Plenty of people around the world raise vegetarian kids. The oldest woman in the world (some Chinese lady who is 120) was a vegetarian from birth.

 

[Perfection]

While I generally have no beef with vegetarians (pardon the pun), I find PETA rather repugnant. The comparison of slaughterhouses to Nazi concentration camps in thier literature (along with other underhanded recruiting strategies), and thier financial support of criminal groups irritates me.

 

[El_Machinae]

But its not because of some inherent human sensitivity toward animals.

I would guess that children gain empathy easily ... but there is lots of evidence, to me, that they don't. It's surely a puzzle, and a very complicated one, about how empathy is built in a child.

 

[MobBoss]

Patently false. Plenty of people around the world raise vegetarian kids. The oldest woman in the world (some Chinese lady who is 120) was a vegetarian from birth.

Lots of people around the world have their growth/development stunted because they lack nutrition also.

You want to have the body of a 120 year old chinese lady......thats your business. Me, I am willing to bet someone 120 years old cant remember what the hell they ate when they were a kid....

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I think they are nutcases.

www.peta.org

They are pretty wacky. They claim they want to save animals from cruel scientific experiments, even though research on those animals saves lives and advances science in ways that would be impossible otherwise. Whom would we test research drugs on first? Humans?

I find their position on eating and wearing animals silly too. Thousands of years of doing both, without any objection, and suddenly they expect people to starve and go naked.

At least other organizations, like the WCS, try to preserve endangered animals. PETA is just nuts.

 

[Narz]

Lots of people around the world have their growth/development stunted because they lack nutrition also.

Uh-huh, and they're usually in thrid-world countries.

You want to have the body of a 120 year old chinese lady......thats your business.

Wow, you got it, that's exactally what I want!

Me, I am willing to bet someone 120 years old cant remember what the hell they ate when they were a kid....

Well, maybe she forgot or is lying, I don't know.

I will follow her example and not argue with others.

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/04/26/1610597.htm

 

[Pyrite]

"I find their position on eating and wearing animals silly too. Thousands of years of doing both, without any objection, and suddenly they expect people to starve and go naked."

The position arises out of a necessity that no longer exists. Humans no longer HAVE to kill animals for food or clothing, it's fashion and taste at the moment. I (and most of the vegans I know) have no problem with eating meat per se, it's more the industrial production of life through factory farms that we find repugnant. Go out and kill a deer in it's natural enviroment : fine, you're just part of the ecosystem. Raise and eat chicken eggs from chickens raised in a healthy enviroment. Fine. Slaughter beef when they've lived on free ranges their lives. Sounds good. The problem comes when the meat has to be basically tortured it's entire life to provide food. And, I think that that is a legitimate concern. Since I have no need to participate in torture of a living creature, I choose not to. I still occassionally fish when I'm hitchiking or traveling but I believe that this is an entirely different story. It's not eating meat itself that I find repulsive, but the conditions that the creature that you are devouring had to endure to feed you. Since I can't be sure what meat has lived a natural life in the supermarket, I don't eat any meat/animal products/wear clothing made from animal products.

 

[.Shane.]

Since I can't be sure what meat has lived a natural life in the supermarket, I don't eat any meat/animal products/wear clothing made from animal products.

Good post, overall. Just wanted to comment on this point... you actually can find organic meat products that are not treated cruelly. Typically they're in co-op type supermarkets.

While I'm not a vegatarian (or vegan) myself, I find it interesting because there is no 1 defining reason for people choosing these paths.

 

[Pyrite]

"Good post, overall. Just wanted to comment on this point... you actually can find organic meat products that are not treated cruelly. Typically they're in co-op type supermarkets. "

True, but they're registered free range and marked free range by a governmental ummm sort of quota system, they have to meet a few certain points to be considered free range. And honestly, I don't find those measures are good enough. Chickens don't have to see a day of sunlight their entire lives to be considered free range, and it's really not all that different from the regular chickens life (they still burn off beaks to prevent the chickens from killing each other after going insane in such bad conditions) and cattle only has to see about an hour every so often to be considered free range) plus, the system is full of abuses (you can't see an inspector checking up on a farm every once in a while can you?) so i honestly just don't trust it. Not that I wouldn't like to, the last meat I've eaten was grimy fire cooked snake. Oh well.

 

[El_Machinae]

My meat is from free range buffalo. It's locally produced, and I can drive out and see the buffalo, if I want to. Perfectly ecologically balanced, since the fields aren't even irrigated.