timtofly
One Day
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What about the fact that Jesus was also God's Word. Seems he would have a "SAY" in the matter as coming down to earth in the form of man?
What does it take for me to get into Heaven?
- Thread starter Ziggy Stardust
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What about the fact that Jesus was also God's Word. Seems he would have a "SAY" in the matter as coming down to earth in the form of man?
Yes, he might know of some ways. Why think he knew the only ways? Jesus also thought Moses and the Exodus was real*.
* Six day Creation, the Flood, etc.
Ailedhoo
wonderer
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Science disagrees on the 6 day thing mate.
As for the floods the evidence of such event occuring over the world is not present. There is suggestion that floods may have occured in Asaia that could have inspired such thoughts to be thought but not the entire world.
So do I, but I'm not going to mate with you.
And this has any bearing on Moses and the exodus of the Jews how?
"Moses and the Exodus" is a stand-in for any of the mythological events described in the early Bible that didn't happen but Jesus (and his disciples) thought happened. Global Flood and 6-Day creation are the two most obvious ones, I just like using the Exodus because there's a great deal of evidence that Jesus thought it really happened. As long as there's something in Genesis that you accept as false, but that Jesus taught as true, then my point is made. He was not all-knowing, and there's no reason to think that he was 100% accurate on spiritual matters even if he was in the right ballpark.
Ailedhoo
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So do I, but I'm not going to mate with you.
We Brits have our standards mate. Or as we say in Wales "love."
Evidence mate. The records are in the rocks, studied via geology: the science of the history of the Earth.
The Tigris and Euphrates flooded. The sea bounderies changed over the years. Such might have seem that the world was flooding. The Egyptians, Romans, and Chinese all documented on remains that later was discovered to be fossils. Hypotheses have been made on what could have inspired the story.
You statement on Exodus "since it was real" has to have scientific evidence to back. Geology can be a good way of observing.
Getting back to the subject and the different views karma (meaning action) should be a consideration along with the ideas of Heaven and Hell.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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How do you know you want to go to neither heaven nor hell?
What are your conceptions of either of them? How do you know these conceptions are correct?
"Son of Man"
How do you know? You seem very certain.
Ah, that's something you'll have to take up with your spiritual leaders, then. As the philosopher implied, you cannot build a strong house on a foundation of sand. You'll not convince me that Jesus is 100% correct about Heaven if you're going to insist he was correct about Genesis. I cannot follow Jesus's suggestion to "love God*" if he truly meant the god of the early books in the Bible.
*love your neighbors is still going strong, of course.
Well you guys are being a bit vague. What, exactly (book, chapter, and verse please) did Jesus say about Genesis that you disagree with?
EDIT: Going into lockdown (aka nap... hey, it's weekend and I'm old) for a bit. Any response will be delayed.
EDIT: Going into lockdown (aka nap... hey, it's weekend and I'm old) for a bit. Any response will be delayed.
I don't know anything about either of them; if someone asked me if I wanted to go to a mystery place then my natural reaction would be know, particularly if I were nearing my centenary (fingers crossed).
Christian heaven/hell I most certainly don't want to go to. Eternal suffering or eternally having to suffer the thing that created suffering in the first place? I'll take non-existence if it's going.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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I think I agree.
But I suspect the official "Evangelical" narrative of either hallelujah or eternal torment may very well be inaccurate to say the least.
Heaven and hell may (if they have any reality at all, which seems uncertain to say the least - but I like to speculate) be neither as boringly "heavenly" nor as diabolically "hellish" as you (and I) have been lead to believe.
It's really hard to talk sensibly about something of which we have, at the very best, only second-hand accounts.
How do I find out?
But I suspect the official "Evangelical" narrative of either hallelujah or eternal torment may very well be inaccurate to say the least.
Heaven and hell may (if they have any reality at all, which seems uncertain to say the least - but I like to speculate) be neither as boringly "heavenly" nor as diabolically "hellish" as you (and I) have been lead to believe.
It's really hard to talk sensibly about something of which we have, at the very best, only second-hand accounts.
How do I find out?
To be clear, I recognise that this is at least a second-hand quotation. Jesus might not have actually said these things.
As we see in Acts 7, the disciple Stephen (recruited by the original disciples) believed that the Exodus was literally true. It was clear that he was not corrected by the disciples and I don't think the disciples were corrected by Jesus.
The author of Jude 1, if he's Jude the Apostle, also believed in 6-day Creation and the Flood. That's him writing after spending a couple years with Jesus.
Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15, and 1 Timothy 2 both show that Paul certainly thought 6 day Creation was literal (though, in my defense I don't know if this was after or before he hung out with Peter who could've set him straight if Jesus had set him straight)
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Who says Gods definition of a day is the same as ours?
Actually, this is not true. Almost every single ancient culture across the world has a global flood theme in it. This would at least suggest that there is some ancient worldwide historical event to link these stories.
You may want to check on this further as I've read otherwise.
GhostWriter16
Deity
http://bible.cc/genesis/1-5.htm
And there was evening, and there was morning, the first day.
That seems to me to be one twenty four hour day, but I could be wrong.
Biblical literalists, since the real question is what definition of 'day' did the author mean? One could ask the same question of John's (or Jesus's, or God's) definition of the words "verily" or "no one" or "kingdom of Heaven" or "unless"
Well, the vast majority of the world is prone to flooding (either from rivers or the sea); I don't see why such evidence points to a single large scale flood.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Floods happen all over the world. In those times most people's world ended on the horizon, so if you look around you and all you see is water, you'll state the world is flooded.
Pretty weak evidence. How about some scientific variety?
Xpost, great minds spot the obvious
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