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What exactly do you think the A.I. needs?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Slowpoke, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

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    So far, here's my list. The A.I. needs:

    -to expand more. Half the map is empty by medeival era, and frequently they will stay at 2 cities for an absurd amount of time.

    -better diplomatic stances. It should recognize someone going in an out of control rampage earlier (too frequently, runaway civs are not held in check by anyone), and it should be easier to ally with empires.

    -a bigger reserve force. Interestingly, a reserve value does exist, so this should be easy

    -to not send ranged units on suicide missions (duh)

    -to make almost exclusively units during war.

    -a lower priority for attacking workers

    -city walls by at least medeival ("BUILD CITY WALLS!" :crazyeye:)
     
  2. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    What's wrong with city walls? They are needed for building castles and military installations. Please enlighten me as to why city walls are so bad - isn't making a city stronger (7.5 points) a good thing? And then castles and military installations can take a city up to 80+ strength later on.
     
  3. Rohili

    Rohili King

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    Where did the OP say that city walls were bad?
     
  4. Jediron

    Jediron Prince

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    that the map stays empty have also to do with the long building times
     
  5. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

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    Sorry that was badly worded, Im'a fixing it. I meant that it needs more city walls when at least at an era (pretty easy to defeat the A.I. when they have no city walls in medeival).
     
  6. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

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    The AI needs to keep its units alive. Diplomacy needs an entire rework.

    I also suspect that the AI goes into budget deficit and loses research. I can't be sure but I know no other way to explain how some populous nations tech so badly at higher levels. That can probably be fixed.
     
  7. smellymummy

    smellymummy King

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    aggressive expansion in early turns

    lower flavor on wonder building (the AI commits suicide when it goes for wonders early game)

    a function to warrior rush a neighbor like a player can do

    anything else players do that the AI doesn't do.

    luckily we can add all of this via script or dll if it ever comes out:)
     
  8. JonoLith

    JonoLith Warlord

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    For me, it all boils down to a complete disconnect between the way the AI treats you in diplomacy, to how he acts in the game. For Example:

    I'm the Iroquois. On my continent is the French, Babylonians, Ottomans, and Germans. The moment I get my Mohawk warriors I start plowing into the french, and wipe them out almost instantly. I don't mind this because I actually timed it specifically to catch them with their pants down. All the other civs are like "I dunno about this, but Napoleon was kinda a dick, so alright."

    I immediately take out the Babylonians. This made me be a bit more "Really guys?" He had built the great wall, but no actual walls, and taking out his cities was pretty easy. It didn't throw me off too bad, because I assumed he thought I was just taking out a warmongering ass of napoleon, and he would be like "Oh snap, my judgement was all up ons the wrong." The Ottomans and Germans are like "You did NOT just do that you crazy SOB!"

    I immediately take out the Ottomans. By this point I'm like "C'mon guys... you saw me coming a mile away." They literally have no defenses and no units of note. I take them out without losing a unit. At this point I'm scratching my head wonder what the AI is actually even DOING. The Germans are flipping OUT at me.

    Now, I approach germanic territory. I haven't scouted ahead, so I don't know what's coming. I see the land get narrower and narrower and end in an obvious choke point. I'm thinking "You'd have to be functionally ******** not to reinforce that."

    Turns out the AI is functionally ********.

    I get to the Germans. They have built literally no defenses. There are SOME units around, but hardly anything of note, and CERTAINLY no units that are using up any kind of resources. No Swordsmen, no Horses, no walls, nothing. My entire march Bismark is cursing at me and saying how much I suck, and did literally nothing to stop me.

    My basic point; the AI needs to be more aware that I am going to try and kill it, and make steps to prevent that from happening. Right now the only time it actually builds military units is when it goes to war. That is stupid.
     
  9. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    The AI needs to know how to play the game.

    Alas, the game is not finished, so of course the AI doesn't know how to play the game. Don't blame the AI programmers. Blame the people who decided to release an unfinished game.

    I'm certain (assuming the Civ V team isn't all laid off) that they will eventually teach the AI how to play the game. Because they will constantly change the game, this will take 2 years. Same as it did for Civ IV.
     
  10. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    The AI needs more I.

    Sorry to be vague, but it really does need help across the board. I am not sure if it does anything average, let alone well.
     
  11. logarithm64

    logarithm64 Omnipotent Space Lizard

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    The developers said that the AI should behave like a human friend that you play against. Therefore, I would like it to behave more like a friend and not insult me for winning a war that I did not start. I'd also like it to be more willing to end wars in which my few units defeat an entire enemy army, but I do not proceed to conquer cities or attack the AI.
     
  12. Bandit17

    Bandit17 Warlord

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    I definatly agree with the diplomacy issues and other points made but what is missing entirely is the ai fighting any type of air war. This is my newest big gripe. How can you release a war heavy strategy game with no air war! After that the navy ai needs some more love as they only build half the ships and than are confused on how to use them. Yea, the suicidal ranged units is rather silly as well.
     
  13. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    When talking about the ai, you should first decide on which difficulty level you're trying to improve. Jonolith's post for instance doesn't look like a deity ai, since it tends to spawn tons and tons of units all the time.
    Here are some points that are general at all AI levels:

    -Washington's at war with France. Arabia is at war with France. Arabia is getting beaten; Therefore, Washington decides to gang up on the weak guy and attack Arabia while still being at war with France. That's stupid. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. They must either sue for peace with France or help Arabia in this case.

    -AI doesn't realise that some units are blocking their path on purpose. It must be aware that neutral units on the path to their target cities are behaving in a hostile way.

    -AI shouldn't hate you for having a poor culture. They should actually be happy about that since it means you're less threatening.

    -AI shouldn't settle in the middle of your lands and then suddenly realise that you have close borders and be pissed off.

    -AI shouldn't sell fixed amount for per turn income, ever, but should accept a fixed amount in exchange of per turn income.

    -AI should stick to its research agreements and wait for them to be over before declaring war. It shouldn't make an RA with a civ that's being eradicated.

    -AI shouldn't move units without reason.

    At higher levels:

    -AI bathes in gold so it should use it. It should spend 2 or 3000 to ally itself with a city state if needed. It can spend that much, and the human player can't, but the benefits matter much.
     
  14. D_Toccs

    D_Toccs Chieftain

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    AI should never sign a pact of secrecy against itself.
     
  15. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    An enhanced AI DLC is on its way in time for Christmas, ladies and gents. For $15 only you can upgrade your Civ5 AI experience. ;)
     
  16. Malachi256

    Malachi256 Prince

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    The biggest thing IMO isn't so much the reserve force idea, but the fact that the AI likes to send units in to die as it produces them (after the initial conflict depletes its standing army). It is very reminiscent of Alliance PvP in WoW...

    It needs to do a better job of assessing enemy threat and holding units back until a reasonable multi-unit counter-attack can be mustered.
     
  17. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    sounds like you need to play at a higher difficulty. on immortal the ai builds plenty of units, and on deity he will cover you with his COD if given half a chance.

    @OP:

    1. prioritize CS alliances for all civs instead of just siam. we all know how huge cs alliances are, ai should know that it can't sneak attack more than one cs the same way humans know this.
    2. prioritize taking/holding choke points. if there's only one tile to get from my lands to yours, you're going to put up a fort with ranged units behind as backup, maybe even a citadel. then you bring in boats to cover units embarking around the choke if it's near water. ai should recognize this and be able to account for ti in its defense.
    3. prioritize "gang up on the runaway civ". I actually had that happen when I played as the mongols the other day. I dow'd japan but left him one city, then irroquois dow'd me. the turn after I wiped out irroquois washington dow'd me. 10 turns after wiping out washington siam, songhai, and india dow me. if they had all ganged up on me after I took out the irroquois (and I was about to dow washington anyway) I would have been in trouble and lost lots of my conquered cities. instead, they just did it one at a time and saved me the trouble of having to declare on them.
    4. make all improvements scale with level; ie, give some bonus for alliances/cs/choke point terrain recognition at king, more so at emperor, and make deity simply as awesome as you can get it.
     
  18. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    I don't expect in next patch really great improvements to make AI really competent so i think that 2K should just prioritize the following issues:

    -AI should defend better. Greater emphasis on forces guarding its cities
    -Better use of Great Generals they are actually never used and remain often idle in their cities
    -Alexander should prioritize allieance towards city states instead of attacking them considering its UA (there is a thread about this).
    -AI should try to win a Spaceship victory
     
  19. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    No, no and no :p the AI should try to chop the tall poppy, but only if it has some real chance of actually making a dent. Otherwise you are just feeding the runaway civ with weak civs.
     
  20. krc

    krc King

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    I think the main (though not the only) weakness at present is that the tactical AI doesn't understand one unit per tile or ranged combat. Even with more (and more advanced) troops, they often have trouble capturing cities, and they can't figure out where to go to defend themselves if you are attacking. The game would get a lot more challenging if the AI actually knew how to use its armies.
     

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