What is Muhammad's Image doing in game files?

[garric]

I'm sorry, if the Muslim world wishes to live with such archaic laws and taboos, I don't have anything to say except: "Welcome to the 21st century."

PS: No, I'm not a hardcore Christian. I'm an atheist.

 

[LordRahl]

I have a very simple solution to the problem:

1) Ban sales of Civ 4 in Muslim countries.
2) Ban sales of Civ 4 to Muslims.

Why should people of reason be punished for the minority which insists on clinging to superstition. Though I do admit - I rather enjoy people who, in the 21st Century, still feel the compulsion to meet with others once a week to discuss an invisible sky wizard. Their delusions are quite charming, once you get past the self-rightousness that is the result of a silly belief system.

Seriously - sometimes I have to look at the calendar just to tell myself that it's not 1452.

 

[bhsup]

...for the minority which insists on clinging to superstition.

Clearly, you're free to feel however you want to about faith and religion, and if you want to think of God as a fictional "sky wizard", more power to you. However, could you please point out to me what nation has a majority population that is atheist, as your post suggests?

 

[garric]

Clearly, you're free to feel however you want to about faith and religion, and if you want to think of God as a fictional "sky wizard", more power to you. However, could you please point out to me what nation has a majority population that is atheist, as your post suggests?

Many nations are quite secular, believe it or not.

 

[Seanirl]

Why should people of reason be punished for the minority which insists on clinging to superstition. Though I do admit - I rather enjoy people who, in the 21st Century, still feel the compulsion to meet with others once a week to discuss an invisible sky wizard. Their delusions are quite charming, once you get past the self-rightousness that is the result of a silly belief system.

The funniest, and... saddest, part is that you honestly believe that that statement does not contain a tinge of irony.

 

[CrazyMrLeo]

Why should people of reason be punished for the minority which insists on clinging to superstition.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Oh yeah. That's quite the minority.

 

[Tarascan_King]

After reading all 5 1/2 pages of posts, I have come to the concusion that, that guy was a troll.

 

[LordRahl]

Clearly, you're free to feel however you want to about faith and religion, and if you want to think of God as a fictional "sky wizard", more power to you. However, could you please point out to me what nation has a majority population that is atheist, as your post suggests?

I never mentioned atheists - though I see how you could get that impression. I'm not an atheist myself - more of an agnostic. Saying that there is no God, is almost as ignorant as claiming that there is God. The most correct position, is that we simply can't know at this point. By people clinging to superstition, I mean those who put blind faith ahead of reason. At the same time, I don't think you'd be willing to dispute the fact that atheism is on the rise, and we're all only better for it. I have yet to hear about atheist suicide bombers...

Here's something I found online - though it's hardly an un-biased source:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheist4.htm

 

[AnsarWarrior]

I really would recommend MODERATORS to CLOSE this thread or do anything about it since civ kids from the "1st World" who always label them self as modern people who respect other beliefs do not recognize what they are saying and before this can get bigger cause there are some wrong hurtfull stuff said here, and about the picture forget about it, just STOP it.

 

[Nebiki]

You shouldn't have to disrespect your own harmless ideas in an attempt to appease others. We all know there is nothing wrong with pictures of anything, including any people.

It's time people stopped confusing the right to have a belief with the right to impose it on others. The demand that Mohammad never be depicted upon penalty of death, even to people of other religions, is the kind of thing fanaticism is all about.

The truth is, some people are willing to die to shove their beliefs down other peoples' throats. That shouldn't be respected, much less tolerated. On the other hand, nobody wants to die, so we have medieval level bullying in the modern world. It's a pity. But one thing it is not worthy of is respect. If you're going to murder people, it damn well needs to be for better reasons than because someone made a drawing or something.

I find that kind of unfair. Surely you understand that Muslims aren't asking you to impose there belief upon others, by asking not to publicly show any picture of Mohammed? All there asking from you is to respect their belief.

 

[wit>trope]

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Oh yeah. That's quite the minority.

That data is irrelevant.

What matters is their proportion to the market.

In terms of the market, they are small minority.

In terms of the INTENDED market, they are tiny minority.

Besides not including it prevents modders from making use of it. Helping you hurts them. And the modding community is certainly much more important than satisfying the traditional Muslim community.

 

[LordRahl]

I really would recommend MODERATORS to CLOSE this thread or do anything about it since civ kids from the "1st World" who always label them self as modern people who respect other beliefs do not recognize what they are saying and before this can get bigger cause there are some wrong hurtfull stuff said here, and about the picture forget about it, just STOP it.

One of the main differences between "1st world", and 3rd world, is freedom of speech - which world are you from?

 

[Nebiki]

One of the main differences between "1st world", and 3rd world, is freedom of speech - which world are you from?

Does the freedom of speech, include the slandering of other people's beliefs?
If so. I don't much idolize the "1st world."

 

[LordRahl]

Does the freedom of speech, include the slandering of other people's beliefs?
If so. I don't much idolize the "1st world."

The answer would be a big YES. Once you start imposing restrictions, you're well on your way to a police state. For example - who would be in charge of deciding of what's slander? You could easily categorize anything that you don't like hearing a slander. Sort of like the word "heresy" was used to end anything that church didn't like in medieval Europe.

 

[Nebiki]

The answer would be a big YES. Once you start imposing restrictions, you're well on your way to a police state. For example - who would be in charge of deciding of what's slander? You could easily categorize anything that you don't like hearing a slander. Sort of like the word "heresy" was used to end anything that church didn't like in medieval Europe.

Then, you just get into a bunch of moral issues.
If freedom of speech is truelly implemented, then, Muslim's have every right to decide what they feel is right or wrong. Including this picture.

 

[MobBoss]

OK, since I got a warning for my previous comments I will tone it down a bit.

My take on the whole thing is that its not a big deal. Whether the image is offensive or not has no relavence what so ever. Any self-respecting fundementalist who would get pissed at the image, would likewise be fuming over the inclusion of JUDAISM in the game.

Oh yeah, mulism fundamentalist just live for the chance to have Saladin embrace judaism to win the game!

ROFL this game has no chance at all at NOT being banned in certain nations!

 

[Jonathan]

I find that kind of unfair. Surely you understand that Muslims aren't asking you to impose there belief upon others, by asking not to publicly show any picture of Mohammed?

I think the self-described Muslims in this thread have not made that request. It's been made by others putting words into their mouths. So far, this seems a lot of fuss about nothing.

 

[Nebiki]

OK, since I got a warning for my previous comments I will tone it down a bit.

My take on the whole thing is that its not a big deal. Whether the image is offensive or not has no relavence what so ever. Any self-respecting fundementalist who would get pissed at the image, would likewise be fuming over the inclusion of JUDAISM in the game.

Oh yeah, mulism fundamentalist just live for the chance to have Saladin embrace judaism to win the game!

EDIT
It's sad that faiths are portrayed as fundamental, purely because they strongely believe in something.
Today's population seems to be sucked up by the illusional picture painted by today's media.
You are not a fundamentalist, for believing in something.
I've met many Muslim's who don't support symbolic features in their religion and are by no means extreme or fundamental.

 

[LordRahl]

Then, you just get into a bunch of moral issues.
If freedom of speech is truelly implemented, then, Muslim's have every right to decide what they feel is right or wrong. Including this picture.

Nobody's stopping them from making their own version of Civilization... In the mean time - keep your hands of my version - I want it just as it is.

 

[Nebiki]

Nobody's stopping them from making their own version of Civilization... In the mean time - keep your hands of my version - I want it just as it is.

Although, I understand what you're getting at Muslims, probably believe that it was also built for them, as would Buddhists, Christians etc. Generally the whole public. Which is essentially the real market the company aims for.
Therefore, scenarios like this are an issue.