What is Muhammad's Image doing in game files?

[korsteve]

It should be removed out of respect, but you should have emailed firaxis first and only made it public if they did not listen.

 

[Mercade]

Tunch Khan, for my understanding, do I correctly understand the following as summary of your view?

1. There is a file named leaderhead_arabia_muhammad (post 1).
2. The file is not visible on the CD and you need a modding tool to extract it from a FPK container file to even find it (post 31).
3. This image file is not used in the game (post 1) as far as you can tell.
4. The image is a barely recognizeable buttonhead (post 31) showing a turban wearing man (post 21).
5. You couldn't care less (post 1,22), but believe that the file(name) should be overwritten in a patch to prevent a possible outrage from people who do care/mind.
6. You believe a developer purposely put it there to imitate a Danish newspaper (post 1)
7. The name cannot refer to Muhamad II (post 4,21) or any other Muh/Moh in history while being the most popular name in the arab world.
8. Basically you object to the use of the words "leaderhead" and "muhammed" in one filename (post 31)?

If this is the case, then I suppose we can consider the developers duly notified now so they can do something with this recommendation or not. Personally I don't see the necessity of making any alterations, but of course we are both entitled to our opinions in this respect.

 

[AmericanGeneral]

.......nevermind

 

[AceChilla]

Yeah we should really have respect for the fundamentalist in Islam, who are annoyed with every little thing happening in the western world.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Touchy people need to get a life. I don't understand what it is with some Muslims who migrate to America and European countries and behave like they own the place by telling people their displeasure of activities committed by natural citizens in their presence, and demanding the removal of those activities and why the locals actually put up with it!

Most recently, some place in England banned the promotion and sale of pig-related toys and sweets because it offended certain Muslims to see such things whenever they went to amusement parks.

Tolerance goes both ways. Muslims need to be more tolerant of foreign cultures and stop acting like they own the place. If an artist chooses to take a photograph of a scene in which someone random has some strange predeliction to the hatred of photographs, his needs shouldn't be accomodated to. Why should he? He doesn't own the camera, much less the scene. There are laws that state that outdoor photography is allowed no matter who is present. If some strange foreigner who hates photography enters your country, should every single camera be confiscated in fears that it might offend him?

In cases like this, it's tempting to become a nationalist, even though nationalists are absolutely no better than fundamentalist Muslims, being extremists themselves. While they are capable of the intolerance and hatred shown by their foreign counterparts, people become nationalists because whenever they turn to their government, their government bends over backwards to the foreigners; it's hardly inspiring.

Political correctness taken to the extreme is self-deprecative and only serves to weaken the fabric of society.

 

[Mikeytikey]

Sorry wrong thread.

 

[Tunch Khan]

1. There is a file named leaderhead_arabia_muhammad (post 1).
   Right.
2. The file is not visible on the CD and you need a modding tool to extract it from a FPK container file to even find it (post 31).
   True.
3. This image file is not used in the game (post 1) as far as you can tell.
   So far, but it's there and you can use it with a single XML command. If it's not already in, that is.
4. The image is a barely recognizeable buttonhead (post 31) showing a turban wearing man (post 21).
   True. Since there is no existing image of him so far, it wouldn't matter anyway wether if it's a recognazible person or not.
5. You couldn't care less (post 1,22), but believe that the file(name) should be overwritten in a patch to prevent a possible outrage from people who do care/mind.
   Many examples of such outrage exists as i have already pointed out.
6. You believe a developer purposely put it there to imitate a Danish newspaper (post 1)
   Can't tell. It was a sarcastic remark to get necessary attention to the issue. But it's always a possiblity.
7. The name cannot refer to Muhamad II (post 4,21) or any other Muh/Moh in history while being the most popular name in the arab world.No it cannot. Do you assume the Arab limo driver in your neighborhood named Muhammad is implied as the leader of all Arabs? How many Muhammads do you know? The leader of the French is not Louis, he's Louis XIV. Greeks don't have Alexander, but Alexander the Great. There's no other historical figure in Arab history refererred as Muhammad alone. You are a smart person, you know what i mean.
8. Basically you object to the use of the words "leaderhead" and "muhammed" in one filename (post 31)?
   It is clear what I am referring to and that is the distribution of the images of a person considered as Prophet to millions when all of these people consider this offensive. (while there's no apparent reason behind it)

I like your reasoning very much indeed, you look like a bright legal scholar. However, while I tried to make my case as simple as possible, I failed to understand yours.

 

[AceChilla]

Woman aren't wearing headscrafes in Civ IV we should really show our respect to muslims by giving all woman headscarfes.

Ow man I forgot, in Islam your not even allowed to make an image of humans or animals. So this whole game shouldn't actually be there because it could offend muslims. Please all trow your game away as fast as possible and boycot firaxis from now on!

 

[Tunch Khan]

Yeah we should really have respect for the fundamentalist in Islam, who are annoyed with every little thing happening in the western world.

I don't see how you can relate the point I tried to make with fundamentalism while this is a "mainstream" Islamic issue. It looks as if you are not familiar with other cultures.

 

[ZiMM]

Tunch Khan it is good that you have noticed this image but I feel you should have informed Firaxis before letting yourself open for narrowminded responses.

The bottom line is the image of prophet muhammed (pbuh) is forbidden in Islam, now it is upto other so-called 'civilised' people to respect this. If you don't then that is your choice, in our belief such things are accounted for in the afterlife so the ball is in your court.

End of story.

Personally I don't think this was done on purpose and knowing how the game development process takes place, it was pulled at a later stage.

 

[Tunch Khan]

... Muslims need to be more tolerant of foreign cultures and stop acting like they own the place. If an artist chooses to take a photograph of a scene in which someone random has some strange predeliction to the hatred of photographs, his needs shouldn't be accomodated to. Why should he? He doesn't own the camera, much less the scene. There are laws that state that outdoor photography is allowed no matter who is present. If some strange foreigner who hates photography enters your country, should every single camera be confiscated in fears that it might offend him? ...

Please don't comment if you don't have anything to say -that makes sense-. There's no such thing in Islam that you can't appear in a photgraph.

 

[Sol Invictus]

True. Since there is no existing image of him so far, it wouldn't matter anyway wether if it's a recognazible person or not.

Tell me, why is it offensive to Muslims to portray Muhammed? Why should we, men of logical principles and of sound mind, pay credence to superstition? There are people out there, called Luddites, who find the use of technology offensive. Perhaps we should shut down the internet because they find it offensive.

Please don't comment if you don't have anything to say -that makes sense-. There's no such thing in Islam that you can't appear in a photgraph.

Oh, really? Then what's all the ruckus with a few (not the majority) of Muslims who get offended whenever their photographs are taken? Something about their souls being stolen? I can't think of any other religion that holds such beliefs.

I don't see how you can relate the point I tried to make with fundamentalism while this is a "mainstream" Islamic issue. It looks as if you are not familiar with other cultures.

There's a fine distinction to be made between Muslim fundamentalism and "mainstream" Islamic issues. Most Muslims consider it a mainstream issue in regards to the wearing of headscarfs and the burqa. They believe that women have not the right to show their faces in public, lest men who can't control themselves lust for them and steal their virginity, which belongs to the family to impart unto a future husband.

edit: This of course only happens in the more fundamentalist nations but it's not unheard of in the United States. I don't expect this kind of hard line behaviour from a muslim from the UAE or Malaysia, but you should know where the tradition comes from.

 

[ZiMM]

Touchy people need to get a life. I don't understand what it is with some Muslims who migrate to America and European countries and behave like they own the place by telling people their displeasure of activities committed by natural citizens in their presence, and demanding the removal of those activities and why the locals actually put up with it!

Most recently, some place in England banned the promotion and sale of pig-related toys and sweets because it offended certain Muslims to see such things whenever they went to amusement parks.

Tolerance goes both ways. Muslims need to be more tolerant of foreign cultures and stop acting like they own the place. If an artist chooses to take a photograph of a scene in which someone random has some strange predeliction to the hatred of photographs, his needs shouldn't be accomodated to. Why should he? He doesn't own the camera, much less the scene. There are laws that state that outdoor photography is allowed no matter who is present. If some strange foreigner who hates photography enters your country, should every single camera be confiscated in fears that it might offend him?

In cases like this, it's tempting to become a nationalist, even though nationalists are absolutely no better than fundamentalist Muslims, being extremists themselves. While they are capable of the intolerance and hatred shown by their foreign counterparts, people become nationalists because whenever they turn to their government, their government bends over backwards to the foreigners; it's hardly inspiring.

Political correctness taken to the extreme is self-deprecative and only serves to weaken the fabric of society.

Being a british asian muslim myself I know exactly what you are talking about, I have more english friends than I do muslim friends so I know all about both sides of the coin. But this is what really p*sses me off, it is a VERY small minority that you are talking about and you are tarnishing us all with the same brush. Comments like 'muslims need to be more tolerant' is downright ignorant, i'm sorry but as an example, if 1% of Man Utd supporters hated Middlesbro, would we say 'man u fans should be more tolerent of middlesbro fans'

 

[Naveed]

I am a Muslim, and personally, I do not see any problems with the image. I think it is time that we Muslims come out of the veil of hypocrisy that we have put it around ourselves. In Islam any kind of photo of human beings is forbidden, but 99% of Muslims love to take photos and have no problems with it, why does when it comes to Muhammad we react differently?

I agree with Sol Invictus, we need to show more respect to the Western culture. We consider a 'Secular West' as our right, we enjoy all its benefits, but inside our societies we despise secularism, why? Does it mean, the world owes it to Islam by giving it all the rights but is there nothing Islam supposed to pay back?

Coming back to the point, the image of Muhammad, I looked at it, and so what? It is just another image, which does not matter, so what if it is of Muhammad? What does it change? Did it change my or your belief? Surely not mine. Did it change anything about my view of Islam? Not mine. Why does it bother you? Just because it is forbidden, like real person photos of any person in the world in Islam are forbidden. It is definitely not even the photo of real Muhammad for sure. What is the big deal? In Civ III : PTW, Arabia had Abu Bakr with animated model as the leader, which must have been an act of blasphemy then! I did not mind it, and I hope that you might have enjoyed playing as Arabs too.

 

[ZiMM]

Ok can we get this thing straight as its starting to annoy me now, PHOTOGRAPHY IS NOT FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM! damn....

 

[CurtSibling]

This thread = Most-Pointless-Argument-Ever.

 

[Sol Invictus]

f 1% of Man Utd supporters hated Middlesbro, would we say 'man u fans should be more tolerent of middlesbro fans'

I think there's a big difference between football supporters not being tolerant of each other (personally I think it's silly) and immigrants who are intolerant towards local cultures. It's like going to Germany and demanding that Oktoberfest (smoking and drinking) be banned because it's offensive to non-drinkers.

Ok can we get this thing straight as its starting to annoy me now, PHOTOGRAPHY IS NOT FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM! damn....

I never said it was, but there are certain Muslim clerics from the Middle East and Asia Minor that say that photography is forbidden. Most notable is Mullah Muhammed Omar of the Taliban. They claim this to be their interpretation of the Al Quran. Unlike Christianity, Islam does not have a central authority like the Vatican, the Orthodox Church or any number of Protestant churches. Thus, many of these fringe groups tend to crop up and claim that their interpretations of the Al Quran are more accurate than all the rest. They have fanatical believers who take their teachings to heart, regardless of whether moderate Muslims agree with them.

I am sure that our friend Naveed is more familiar with the forbidden quality of photography in Muslim culture than either you or I, and he has spoken his words on the subject. Many people just don't care, just like most Christians don't care about the Sabbath day laws, which during ancient times had a penalty of death if broken. Very few people care if you work on Sundays anymore.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Oh, really? Then what's all the ruckus with a few (not the majority) of Muslims who get offended whenever their photographs are taken? Something about their souls being stolen? I can't think of any other religion that holds such beliefs.

Who told you that? You read it in Reader's Digest? Even that would be an intellectual source compared to what you are saying.

 

[Stargirl]

what a pointless thread to create.

 

[ZiMM]

ok probably not he best example to use! but surely you can agree that the whole 'muslims being intolerent' here is a very small minority and by generalising the whole muslim population will make matters worse?