What is so good about Shakespeare?

You might enjoy Branagh's Henry V movie. Branagh is wonderful in that role, and there are quite a few supporting actors who are very good as well (Brian Blessed, Derek Jacobi, Judi Dench, and a young Christian Bale).


Link to video.

Ah, Derek Jacobi. I remember him from I, Claudius.

It looks interesting. I might watch it some time.

You were never young and crazy over your first teenage love? Granted, Romeo kinda overreacted, but the point is that to the kids this was the most important thing in the world, and their families would never have allowed them to be together.

I understand Romeo better than Hamlet, at least. Romeo has my sympathies, but Hamlet was just a jerk. It was his erratic behaviour that got himself killed. He deserved it.

Hyperborean might confirm that it’s not going into his Shakespeare anthology).

It isn't. While it does provoke the thought I think it's a too "wordy" to be a great quote. That's my problem with Shakespeare, I wish his language could be a bit more to the point.
 
It isn't. While it does provoke the thought I think it's a too "wordy" to be a great quote. That's my problem with Shakespeare, I wish his language could be a bit more to the point.
If you're doing the laundry, you can't get any more to the point than "Out, damned spot!"
 
If interest in this thread is waning, I’ll answer my own most recent question about “worth,” and use it as the occasion to sign off. I’d hoped we could get through “possession” and (especially) “rack” as well. My case would have been a tiny bit stronger.

The idiom “to the worth” appearing in this context effectively makes the word “worth” mean two things: “value” and “full value.” We ordinarily don’t need that distinction, but in the human reality described here, it is a useful distinction because it is a truism that, after we’ve lost something, we come to realize that the value we’d given it was not its full value. The reason S makes a single word “worth” stand for both of these meanings, though, is that it captures how, while we do have something, we are not aware of any discrepency, so we regard the value we give it as its worth--for all we know (then), its full worth.

I want to stress something I’ve said. “To the worth” was not an idiom current in S’s day. His auditors would have experienced the same cognitive load for this phrase that we experience. To make any sense of it, they would have had to (as well as they could in real time) assign it the kind of meaning that we have assigned it as a result of our laborious literary analysis, and there’s no reason for believing that their minds could do that work any better than ours. Thus one point I’ve been making all along: the added cognitive load that one experiences while listening to Shakespeare is only partly a result of changes in the English language over the past 400 years; it’s mostly a result of how poetically rich and dense his writing is.

For his original audience, then, as for us, part of the experience of seeing a Shakespeare play would have been cognitive overload. They, like us, made sense of the gist and were aware that a superabundance of meaning was rushing past them.

I have tried to make the claim it is relatively common to seek out aesthetic experiences where we know our processing powers are going to be inadequate (rap and SFX movies were my examples). I think S’s audience sought out his plays for just that experience, and returned in order to try to catch a little more, on a second listen, than they had been able to on the first (like a kid who listens to Rap God and the very next thing he wants to do is listen to Rap God again).

In these semantically overwhelming passages, what Shakespeare is doing (as you discover if you put him in slow-mo and freeze frame) is altering the expressive capabilities of the English language itself. Not just using English exceptionally well, but actually making English do more than English can ordinarily do to express meaning. We’ve had to settle for one example: how he makes “worth” have a pair subtlely distinct meanings. I would have liked to give hundreds, so you can see how consistently he does this. Because it is this capacity that I think warrants his being regarded as “so good” (my answer, finally, to Terx’s thread title), even warrants the human investment our culture makes in him: those professors and teachers who devote their lives to his study and to guiding his apprecation by others (who, from another angle of vision could look like a priestly caste guarding the “mysteries” of Shakespeare).

So, if this is to be the end, I leave you with Gori the Grey’s Guide to Experiencing Shakespeare:

Watch the plays first; seeing them in the theatre or in good film adaptations will give you lots of aids to understanding what is going on (and anyway that’s how they’re meant to be experienced).

You may feel as though, on a first viewing, you only get the gist of the plot and the character’s relations to one another. Don’t be discouraged; that’s all Shakespeare’s original audience would have taken in on a first viewing.

In the part that’s not the gist, you may feel like language is flowing past you that exceeds your capacity to process. That’s okay. That’s what Shakespeare wanted you to experience. Just let it flow over you, listening for anything that sounds cool.

After watching the play, track down in a printed version the passages that sounded cool to you. Try to work out what S is saying in the passages. Be aware that S is probably pushing the English language to and past its limits.

Have your own writing benefit from seeing someone push to and past the expressive capacities of a particular language.

Have fun. Above all, he's an entertainer.
 
So how is everyone doing in our ongoing efforts to understand Shakespeare? ;)

I found an interesting documentary series on Youtube, hosted by Michael Wood. Be warned: The host really likes Shakespeare.


In Search of Shakespeare 1: A Time of Revolution


Link to video.


In Search of Shakespeare 2: The Lost Years


Link to video.
 
I've went from "trying to understand Shakespeare" to "screw it, I'll just read Dante".

That's probably because of my claims that, if you read him in a translation or modernized English, you'll miss a lot. That claim holds primarily for native speakers of English, who I think can follow Shakespeare adequately in a staged performance.

That principle holds true of Dante as well, but perhaps a little less true. Much of Dante's meaning emerges from the design of his hell, purgatory and heaven, and that comes through in translation.

I can't regret you've gone on to Dante. Except for Shakespeare, you can scarcely do better than Dante (Homer, of course). T.S. Eliot said, "Dante and Shakespeare split the world between them. There is no third."

If you ever do want to give Shakespeare a try, we can approach it differently than I did with Mise. You can read the No Fear modernization, to get the plot and characters, and any passage where you sense that Shakespeare might be doing something interesting poetically, I can walk you through the original of just that passage, to show you the extra that you'd find in him if you attend to his actual words, rather than a paraphrase.
 
I've went from "trying to understand Shakespeare" to "screw it, I'll just read Dante".
That's unfortunate. :(

I do recommend the videos I posted. I've watched them all, and they're an interesting examination of Shakespeare's life from childhood to death, and sets his life in the overall context of what was going on politically at the time.
 
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