What is "The Great Mistake"?

[gunnergoz]

I think he is criticizing the idea that once the PRC becomes leading world power they will actually use nuclear warfare, something even the Soviets didn't when they were one of the two super powers.

I think I'd like to hear him explain himself, but thank you very much.

 

[Lights]

I'm quite disappointed the great mistake wasn't ultraporn.

It's not canon, it might have been ultraporn.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I think he is criticizing the idea that once the PRC becomes leading world power they will actually use nuclear warfare, something even the Soviets didn't when they were one of the two super powers.

Because the Soviets never had a nuke going off on their own territory. If, during the Cold War, a nuke went off in the USSR or the US, would you think neither the US nor the USSR would've retaliated at the most likely suspect?

 

[gunnergoz]

Because the Soviets never had a nuke going off on their own territory. If, during the Cold War, a nuke went off in the USSR or the US, would you think neither the US nor the USSR would've retaliated at the most likely suspect?

Well said & succinct.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Looking at it closer, it seems even crazier. They invade Afghanistan and then nuke it? Also North Korea? Writers, what the hell are you injecting?

 

[gunnergoz]

Looking at it closer, it seems even crazier. They invade Afghanistan and then nuke it? Also North Korea? Writers, what the hell are you injecting?

First, its their game so they can invent any lore they wish.
Second, they clearly invite the gamer (if you watched the video and other interviews) to make up their own lore if they care to, leaving plenty of gaps to fill and no game-related rules that confine the gamer into having to adhere to one lore over another.
Third, this is not history revised, it is not political commentary, it is not social critique, it is fiction to further a game being designed for entertainment purposes.

My questions to you, SS-!8 ICBM are, "What are you injecting into the discussion? Whence all the outrage? And to what end?" I'm merely curious to see where this came from and where it is leading.

 

[Esmer]

For cripe's sake people, give the space nazis, bionic bolsheviks and solar soviets a rest already. Has no one any creative imagination any more? Or will we be seeing the same stinking dead horses zombiefied over and over again, ad nauseum?

This is why I am proposing a Northern European/Germanic sponsor who is all about enviromental protection and planetary awareness (Mother Gaia, man!) and has the respective civ bonuses.

 

[gunnergoz]

This is why I am proposing a Northern European/Germanic sponsor who is all about enviromental protection and planetary awareness (Mother Gaia, man!) and has the respective civ bonuses.

That is closer to what I'm hoping to see. More hopefulness and less hopelessness. I get enough of the latter on cable news.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

First, its their game so they can invent any lore they wish.

And I am free to criticize it as I see fit. I'd like to see some effort beyond "China nukes half of Asia because yellow peril".

My questions to you, SS-!8 ICBM are, "What are you injecting into the discussion? Whence all the outrage? And to what end?" I'm merely curious to see where this came from and where it is leading.

Who made you the enforcer of positive opinions on this forum?

 

[gunnergoz]

And I am free to criticize it as I see fit. I'd like to see some effort beyond "China nukes half of Asia because yellow peril".



Who made you the enforcer of positive opinions on this forum?

Ah, I see, it is the "yellow peril" trope you wish to drag into the discussion. So I take it you are arguing that Firaxis developers were racist in their creation of the BE lore? Then why not come out and say that directly?

And by the way, I am simply asking questions in an attempt to clarify the presumptions behind your comments. Is that OK by you?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I see it far more as an "islamist peril" ie nuclear Iran + Pakistan getting involved in the war.
China taking the role of "great Satan/US"

Not to mention there is significantly more to the lore needed.
Kozlov mentions 4 world wars... that Russia was involved in

If Russia gets sucked into the Great Mistake nuclear exchange, that still leaves a 4th world war that Russia was involved in.

And perhaps Russia wasn't involved in that nuclear exchange at all, perhaps there were 2 additional world wars.

 

[GeoModder]

Not to mention there is significantly more to the lore needed.
Kozlov mentions 4 world wars... that Russia was involved in

If Russia gets sucked into the Great Mistake nuclear exchange, that still leaves a 4th world war that Russia was involved in.

And perhaps Russia wasn't involved in that nuclear exchange at all, perhaps there were 2 additional world wars.

And perhaps the Crimean War of the mid-nineteen century was included in this 'four World Wars' trope. This war was, for the Russians and the Alliance, an important conflict at the time it happened. Even if the scope was pretty limited to 20th century standards.
In each 'world war', there were huge parts of the world that didn't experience a direct involvement with the fighting. It was mostly because the most important politic entities of the time were involved these conflicts were called 'world wars'.

 

[Esmer]

"World War" is really an ambigous term. The Napoleonic Wars in their entirety were arguably also a world war. Basically all great powers participated and there battles on multiple continents.

The Cold War also counts as a global conflict methinks.

 

[joncnunn]

"World War" is really an ambigous term. The Napoleonic Wars in their entirety were arguably also a world war. Basically all great powers participated and there battles on multiple continents.

The Cold War also counts as a global conflict methinks.

The term itself appears to have been invented early in the 20th century a few years before WWI broke out.

Yes, Cold War is normally included. A hypothetical WW III has been in fiction since WW II.

Churchill called the Seven Years War "the first world war".

Some historians go back further and include the Wars of Spanish & Austrian succession.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Then why not come out and say that directly?

Because it's their government which seems to be acting rather erratically.

Is that OK by you?

So long as you don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: It's time for the two of you to drop this personal back and forth, and return to the topic. If you want to continue trading inane jabs, please drop out of the thread and go to PM.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Because it's their government which seems to be acting rather erratically.

I guess the "yellow peril" reading is a possible one. To me, it sounded a lot more like "what if a cold war crises actually went hot", something like the Cuban Missile Crisis - but at the same time, somebody actually detonated a nuclear weapon. Not like a government going crazy, but a crisis where somewhere, somebody messed up. It is a "Great Mistake", after all - near misses have happened before.

Picking China, as the designers stated, is more about them being in ascendancy economically and politically, meaning they could play a similar role in the 2050s/60s as the US in the 1950s/60s.

And it's not like China's future government is singled out as being a bit erratic, the subsequent isolationist policies from the Western countries? The nuclear retaliations? It doesn't paint a very nice picture of any government.

All in all, there's a reason why their story is non-canonical. And I appreciate that they left it open without being lazy - they could've just left it open without filling anything in, but they did. Proves that it wasn't just "being lazy" but really wanted to give people their own space.

 

[Esmer]

I really hope the PAC doesn't get to be the "bad guy" then (like Chairman Yang in SMAC), because China being responsible for screwing up Earth and later being also responsible for screwing up the new planet would be too much.

(Imagine Earth citizens being invaded by a PAC supremacy victory force: "Dude, China! Seriously? Are you starting the same crap all over again?")

But then again, the ARC seems to be the overall bad guy faction so far.

 

[Memoryjar]

Churchill called the Seven Years War "the first world war".

Some historians too, if you call word war a conflict around the world. So Russia wasn't involve in all WW.

 

[Esmer]

Russia was heavily involved in the 7 years war, or did you mean something else?