What is the most efficient language in the world?

Wonderful, now how exactly are you going to type those 11 strokes compared to the 11 strokes of tortoise? This is a technological world now, writing isnt nearly as important as how well it works with computers.

Typing is not a problem. I've a catalan edition of windows but I've downloaded the pinyin ime pack and now I can write in chinese.

我用我的电脑可能写汉字!!!!

This is a technological world now

You're right. So before posting, look for information and you'll know that, while using a computer, you can write faster in chinese than in english.
 
Typing is not a problem. I've a catalan edition of windows but I've downloaded the pinyin ime pack and now I can write in chinese.

我用我的电脑可能写汉字!!!!
Meh, I'll stick with my Japanese, thank you ;). (Eventhough some Japanese Kanji Characters are shared with Traditional Chinese Characters).
 
我也可以写日文用Pinyin IME。

輪壁日簿ブラが炉なしのbぁbぁbぁ

I don't know what I've said.
 
As for the writing and letters i think Serbian is the best.
It has 30 letters, which is more than most of the European languages, BUT these 30 letters are always, and i mean ALWAYS pronounced in the same way.

You know how they say that every rule has an exception, well this rule has an exception too, cause Serbian writing system has no exceptions (am i making any sense? :) )
Once you memorized the 30 letters, you cant make mistakes. Plus, Serbian has both Cyrillic and Latin (or how do you call the type of letters most of Europe uses e.g. English) so you are free to choose the one you like more :)


Unfortunately this type of writing system can only work for languages like Serbian, Italian or such, where pronunciations are clear and there are no "in between" sounds, like in English


Im Serb, but i speak Italian (and English obviously) as well, and i can say that Italian is very close to achieving this writing simplicity, if they only changed those few, in my opinion, pointless writing rules.
Why on earth have they kicked the letter "K" from their alphabet, and transformed the S into a Z sound, is beyond me :)


Why writing: Che, chi, casa, cosa.....
Wouldn't this be more simple: Ke, ki, Kaza, Koza....
 
180px-Radical_213_Guwen.jpg

180px-Radical_213_Shuowen.jpg


Does that help? The second is made by imitating the first, but using already established components.
 
Linguistic "efficiency" is a very amorphous concept. While languages such as the Sino-Tibetan (Chinese, Burmese, et cetera) and Austro-Thai (Thai, Lao, Shan) languages' elegantly simple grammar makes them very easy to acquire, said simplicity can hinder precise communication. Conversely, more complicated grammatical structures are more difficult to master, but can offer greater scope for both precision and for artistry.

For example, in standard spoken Lao and Thai, verbs are almost never conjugated, nouns and pronouns are not declined, and the subject of a sentence is often omitted if it seems obvious. This makes learning Lao or Thai very simple, but means miscommunication is more likely, and its harder to jump into the middle of a conversation if you haven't been following it from the beginning.

I have picked up fairly decent Lao and Thai with no formal study or grammar book and only a dictionary to guide me, something I'm sure I could not do with a more grammatically complex language such as Russian or Korean. On the other hand, there are many an occasion where I stumble into a Lao/Thai conversation and know immediately what the verb is, but I do not know if said verb was a command or a statement; if a statement, I do not know if it refers to the past, present, or future; and, if the subject noun/pronoun was dropped, I have no idea if the speaker was referring to him/herself, myself, ourselves, or a third party. Context usually will clue one in, but not always.

A more complex grammar, such as English uses, is obviously more difficult to learn. As an English teacher, I have seen my students struggle to come to terms with subject/verb agreement, declining pronouns (I/me/my/myself), conjugating English's rather convoluted verb tenses, not to mention all the irregularities inherent in English.

English verb tenses in particular can be nasty. Even in languages that conjugate their verbs, there are rarely as many tenses. For example, Japanese and Korean use essentially:

  • present (I do)
  • present continuous (I am doing)
  • preterite (I did)
  • future (I will do)
  • present perfect (I have done) - but only in the sense of experience, i.e. "I have done that before".
  • past perfect (I had done)

In addition to these, English throws in:

  • present perfect (I have done) - both experientially and as a current state, i.e. "I have done the dishes (and they are still clean)", as opposed to "I did the dishes (and they may or may not be dirty again)".
  • future perfect (I will have done)
  • imperfect (I used to do)
  • past continuous (I was doing)
  • future continuous (I will be doing)
  • present perfect continuous (I have been doing)
  • past perfect continuous (I had been doing)
  • future perfect continuous(!) (I will have been doing)
  • conditional (I would do; I would have done)

Such complexity is obviously difficult to learn, but it allows for greater precision and, coupled with the fact that English never drops a sentence's subject, allows any one coming late to the conversation to immediately discern a command from a statement, whether the subject is the speaker, the listener, or a third party, and when exactly the action has/is/will take place.

Taking the conjugation example even further, languages such as Korean and Japanese, while conjugating verbs for tense (past/present/future), also conjugate mood, feeling, and politeness. Thus, "I/You/We/They do" or "He/She/It does" can be:

  • 해 hae (informal)
  • 해요 haeyo (informal polite)
  • 합니다 hamnida (formal)
  • 하세요 haseyo (informal polite respectful)
  • 하십니다 hashimnida (formal polite respectful)
  • 하는데 haneundeh (softening a statement as when explaining or making an excuse)
  • 하는데요 haneundeyo (as above, but more polite)
  • 하차나 hachana (restating a known condition as in I do, you know).
  • 하차나요 hachanayo (as above, but more polite)
  • 하군요 hagunyo (mild emphasis)
  • 하져 hajaw (confirmation as in "You do, don't you")
  • 하지요 hachiyo (as above, but more polite)
  • 하자 haja ("Let's go")
  • 합시다 hapshida (as above, but polite)

There are more variations, but you get the picture. And this is only for the present tense. Throw in past and future tenses, commands, suggestions, offers, requests, et cetera, and conjugating a Korean verb makes conjugating a Latin verb seem like child's play. Again, the grammar is brutally complex to master, but allows any casual listener to know when the action in question took/takes/will take place, and some of the speaker's feelings/motives for relaying said information. The Korean (and Japanese) tendency to drop a sentence's subject does, however, detract from its precision, but allows for smoother casual verbal exchanges.

Which of the above is more efficient? Obviously, Thai or Lao if "efficiency" means the speed with which non-native speakers can learn the language. English, by not dropping its subjects, is most efficient for allowing a casual listener to automatically grasp who did what and when. Korean, with its innumerable inflexions, is probably more efficient at conveying the speaker's intent/feeling in making a given utterance.

Though a native English speaker, I have always tried to avoid any tendency towards linguistic chauvinism. The more non-English languages I learn, though, the more enamored I become with English. This has less to do with its "efficiency" than with its "flexibility and artistry", which is largely at odds with any sense of efficiency. Being the bastard product of Celtic/Roman/Saxon/Danish/French/Greek miscegenation, English, as an imperial language, then went out and absorbed words from literally dozens of other languages. Such a large and varied lexicon, while vastly complicating attempts to master it, provides it with the ability to mutate and reconstitute itself more quickly than any other language of which I am aware. Few other languages could give you a word such as "craptacular", splicing a genarally vulgar Germannic element, "crap", on to a more sophisticated Latin base, "spectacular", to produce a word whose meaning has changed little, but which conveys an entirely new sense of that meaning.

Another benefit of English's imperial past is the wide variety of Englishes on the planet. British, American, Australian English, and their sub-dialects (Geordies/Scousers/Downeasters/Ebonics), not to mention Indian English, Singaporean English, Kenyan, Ghanaian, Jamaican English, all add to the richness, if not the efficiency, of English that perhaps only French or Spanish could hope to match.

As for writing systems (an ENTIRELY different matter), ideogramic/logogramic languages have the advantage of allowing speakers of different languages to communicate in writing. Literate speakers of Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, et cetera, as well as educated Japanese, and long ago educated Koreans and Vietnamese, even if they had no common spoken tongue, could communicate on paper to a remarkable extent. Even now, if one wanted to, one could master Chinese characters in one's native tongue and communicate fully in writing while never learning to speak any Chinese dialect.

That said, within a single language area, an alphabetic writing system is more efficient in that it is easier to learn and more flexible for the introduction of new words into the lexicon. The Latin script used in Western European languages is a highly adaptive alphabet as evidenced by its ability to render such a diverse range of languages into writing, however imperfectly (explaining some of the ridiculous spellings one finds in English).

Korean 한글 (hangul) is perhaps the most efficient alphabet there is for its own language, but it lacks quite a few sounds vital to other languages (no "f", "th", "z"), can not replicate final aspirants (my name is "Greg" but my students call me "Greck), and has no provision for consonant clusters ("stripes" becomes 스트라이프스, prounounced "seu-teu-ra-ee-peu-seu).

Not all alphabets are created equal, though. The Latin and Korean scripts were at least created with simplicity in mind. The Thai script was design as a court/temple script and was intended to be as ornate as possible. There are, for example, five different letters that to a Westerner look exactly like the letter "W" except for the placement of a loop on the left-hand arm and the length of the right hand arm. Thus, even the slightest irregularity in writing style can significantly alter the pronuncuation and meaning of a word.

Japanese is an odd hybrid - syllabic, not alphabetic. In both katakana and hiragana, consonants can not be separated from their following vowel. Therefore, "stripes" pronounced as written in Japanese is "su-to-ra-ee-pu-su" (sorry, no katagana/hiragana on this machine). As such, no matter how well Japanese kana might fit Japanese, it would never do for accurately transcribing other languages.

All in all, 'efficiency" is too hard a concept to define in regard to languages. Adaptability and simplicity are probably more realistic goals. English, by dint of its polyglot history and imperfect but malleable alphabet, is probably the most adaptable. Of the simpler, grammatically-speaking at least, languages Mandarin Chinese is both the most widespread, and perhaps the most developed. Toss in the other colonial/imperial languages - French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian - plus Hindi/Urdu, and you have most of the world covered.
 
Im Serb, but i speak Italian (and English obviously) as well, and i can say that Italian is very close to achieving this writing simplicity, if they only changed those few, in my opinion, pointless writing rules.
Why on earth have they kicked the letter "K" from their alphabet, and transformed the S into a Z sound, is beyond me :)


Why writing: Che, chi, casa, cosa.....
Wouldn't this be more simple: Ke, ki, Kaza, Koza....

I disagree.

First, there has NEVER been k in Italian, as far as I'm aware. Neither has it been in Latin. You find that simpler because you are used to the K from Serbian. The only reason why k is there in Italian is because of foreign words, like those imported from English or Greek.

Secondly, what you're saying about Serbian is false. For example, the group "lj" is read different than if you just read a "j" after a "l". And that's just one example from my very, very limited experience with Serbian.

And a more personal opinoin on this - the duality of Latin and Cyliric alphabets is very bad, and REALLY REALLY confusing for a foreigner. If I just see something like "BOJH" on a street, it could be read in 2 totally different ways in Latin and Cyliric and there's nothing to tell me whether I should read it like in Latin or like in Cyliric.
 
Linguistic "efficiency" is a very amorphous concept. While languages such as the Sino-Tibetan (Chinese, Burmese, et cetera) and Austro-Thai (Thai, Lao, Shan) languages' elegantly simple grammar makes them very easy to acquire, said simplicity can hinder precise communication. Conversely, more complicated grammatical structures are more difficult to master, but can offer greater scope for both precision and for artistry.
Amazing post!
It's the facility for precision (and artistry) that draws me most to a language, especially if we have to choose one language for the whole world to master. Imagine how precise all those polyglots would be if they could focus their attention on one language.
 
I think it does English a disservice to say that it has so many tenses. That old idea is based on misapplied concepts from Latin. I think it's truer to say it has two and then it adds auxilaries showing aspect and mood. Basically there's really only 3 things you can do, in combination with each other or not, to an English verb. You can make it past or non-past and you can make it complete (HAVE + EN) or incomplete (BE + ING) and then you can combine those things.

The really complex stuff comes no with that basic system, but with the auxillary constructions and modal verbs like will, should, might, may, must, could, can, etcetera. Even the future tense is really just a modal verb.
 
Great post indeed!
Yeah, I think I understand. Linguistic efficiency is a hard thing to define. Let me clarify a bit more about Thai.

- The unclear issue.
Yes, in most respects it can be quite hard. Some COnservations in Thai, when trnaslated to English can seem incomprehensible, example :

"where go?" Is all that is needed to ask, where are you going, a few word changes and it can mean, "where have you gone" and can be used for any subject. In addition to that, Thai have numerous words that are written and pronounced the same. Such as 'him' and 'mountain' are both pronounced the same tonal level of 'kao'. And another fun complexity is the tones. Thai, like Chinese, is a tonal language, unlike English, and its much more varied than things like French ''accents''.

Thai also has amost all the sounds in the world. Rendering a language directly into Thai has never been a problem, while Korean are missing sounds like f and th, like was said, so Koreans say ''pader''. I've been to Korea once and their pronunciation is horrid.

- About the writing issue.
Thai was a language that was derived from Suriyavarman's Khmer Empire's script, which was inturn derived from Sanskrit, which was derived from Pali. The number of almphabets increased from
Pali's 32 --> Sanskrit 34 --> Thai 44, with tons of them having the same sounds, and used the same way. And asked for the complexity issue, well, if you're lucky enought to see this...

พ ฟ ผ ฝ บ ป and ฑ ท and ฏ ฎ and ฆ ม ...

are totally different, and delightfully evil fun. Thai maybe easy to talk and speak, but it can be one hell of a writing language. Writing almost perfect Thai in the basic words are a quality only found in definitely lower than 50 percent of Thais. The internet slang transformation didn't help either.

@MilesGregarius - Are you an English teacher in Korea? If so, can you explain to me why English comprehension in Korea is so shockingly low, I mean, they are a developing country, and another question. Do high school Korean students study a third language, like French or Chinese? Because a third of Thai high school kids, do, they study French, Jap or German.
 
@ german: I find german in expressing thoughts (I´m a nativ speaker) better than english; I wrote half a dozen scientific papers and my PhD thesis in Englich and I find that English is inferior to German concerning making one statement with sub-relativizations and in-senctence thoughts and distinctin of subcases because of the easiness of the German language to build complex causalization and subordinate clause structures and merging of nouns (such as Bahnhofsgeländeverwaltungsassistent) to spare a subordinate clause.
I must admit though that german grammar is a hard nut to crack :rolleyes: and that I frequently get lost when translating my thoughts into a 1.5 page sentence :crazyeye:
 
Yay! I got my connection back!

Well, I'm not dumping on any language, not particulary one that has over 800 million speakers ;) (although, personally it would not matter, as here in the UK most of the ethnic Chinese speak Cantonese instead, due to colonial history) I'm not being ethno-centric either - it's just effeciency. The Latin alphabet is the most widespread geographicly - again mainly due to the White Man's sword and whip. The preportion of non-Latin writers familiar with Latin scripts is higher than vice-versa :sad: . Therefore, as more people on earth are familiar with a Latin script than anything else, this is our basis for an efficiant language.

ConanKND - Now that explains how my friend's mum speaks, thanks!

Japanese - even less of a chance, I'm afraid. Japanese is a language isolate (has no living reletives), not as widly spoken overseas as Manderin, is only native to one nation, and your population is aging and declining. Japanese does furnish a fair amount of words for English, mainly technology, economic/management terms, with a smattering of cultural ones.

S Korea is not really a 'delevolping' nation anymore - it's more of semi-developed these days, a bit like how Japan was in the '60's. She's turning from being a Japanese assembily plant to having her own industiral giants...

SS-18 ICBM - your article was interesting reading, thanks. I had seen Chinese keyboards (got one with my PC a couple of years back - that's what you get when you order using a Babel Fish!) but still wondered how people used it. Using a tablet and pen, may be more efficant for ideographic languages rather than typing, and the tablet would be more efficiant with, say Manderin rather than English as you could spend a little more time on each symbol, so the **** computer reconicises it.

I have read reports and articles from lingusts, historians and futurologists about this topic, and nearly all are clear on a point - in the 21st Century, nearly all but the top dozen languages are in direct threat of erosion, due to communications and culture. Languages such as Swedish, Dutch, Catalan and Afrikaans are usally on their lists. The closeness of a more numerious langauge is quite often to blame.

EDIT

I came across this on the ever reliable ;) Wikipedia.

We mae nowadaes be chairy about uezing the werd "jeenius", but we stil hav a guud iedeea whut is ment bi it. For exampl, thair ar graet numbers of verry gifted muezishans hoo ar admierd but not calld jeeniuses.

This is SoundSpel - a US English spelling reform preposal, dated 1910. I find it somewhat hard to read - perhaps because I have a limey prononciation?
 
Japanese may have different conjugations to indicate mood, but we do that in other languages too, but with tone.
Tone in some languages is used to distinguish words, using some of the space that would otherwise be available for incidental information such as emotion.
 
Japanese may have different conjugations to indicate mood, but we do that in other languages too, but with tone.
Tone in some languages is used to distinguish words, using some of the space that would otherwise be available for incidental information such as emotion.

Japanese conjugations are more for register rather than mood. And tones are used in much the same way as in English. Tone is not used to distinguish between words except for small pitch changes in a minority of words.
 
Heh, that remark about Korea is quite true, Mr Fusty. THings go really fast in Korea, now its slowing a bit. S Korea may be declining, but it's not as bad as Japan, that one's turning to an elder house.

And BTW, can anyone read the Thai alphabets I typed?
 
I came across this on the ever reliable ;) Wikipedia.

We mae nowadaes be chairy about uezing the werd "jeenius", but we stil hav a guud iedeea whut is ment bi it. For exampl, thair ar graet numbers of verry gifted muezishans hoo ar admierd but not calld jeeniuses.

This is SoundSpel - a US English spelling reform preposal, dated 1910. I find it somewhat hard to read - perhaps because I have a limey prononciation?


Looks readable to my eye, but incompetent --doesn't fullfill the idea that every letter would be pronounced same way every time. I think that systems considers every vovel pairing differently (?)

ie "a" in "about" sounds different than "a" in "mae". Atleast when I'm tasting that sentence..


IMO efficient language should have every letter pronounced always the same way, no matter what other letters it is with in the word. (ofcourse there are also other requirements for efficient language).
 
I disagree.



Secondly, what you're saying about Serbian is false. For example, the group "lj" is read different than if you just read a "j" after a "l". And that's just one example from my very, very limited experience with Serbian.

Sorry m8 but as you said your knowledge of Serbian Is limited :)
Lj is a letter on its own and completely separated from either L or J.
The confusion comes from the fact that when written in Latin alphabet we use 2 letters combined together, but thats only cause the Latin counterpart of Serbian Cyrillic was "invented" only later.
The Cyrillic version of the letter Lj (unfortunately i do not have a Cyrillic font) is just one letter, or should i say just one sign, not a combination of the two.

So as i said in my previous post, there are no exceptions on the "one letter one sound" rule in Serbian.
 
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