What is the point of life?

I doubt that anything less than 90% of Human energy use globally is for things other than reproduction. It might be higher for other species, but I'm fairly certain that there are numerous species that don't spend the majority of their energy on reproduction.

We were talking about the "point of life". Humanity is a super tiny part of all life. We've evolved to the point where we can stop and think and decide to do things other than what our biological urges tempt us to.

Most life spends most of its energy on trying to find food and water to sustain itself, I believe (but could be wrong). The ultimate goal in all this is eventual reproduction, though.

Isn't it obvious that the grand point of life is the passing on of the genes? (Maybe not? It seems clear to me, but what do I know) That's basically what life is - a duplication machine.. or rather a vessel built around a duplication machine (i.e. DNA)
 
We were talking about the "point of life". Humanity is a super tiny part of all life. We've evolved to the point where we can stop and think and decide to do things other than what our biological urges tempt us to.

Most life spends most of its energy on trying to find food and water to sustain itself, I believe (but could be wrong). The ultimate goal in all this is eventual reproduction, though.

Isn't it obvious that the grand point of life is the passing on of the genes? (Maybe not? It seems clear to me, but what do I know) That's basically what life is - a duplication machine.. or rather a vessel built around a duplication machine (i.e. DNA)

Some lifeforms are biologically immortal (or at least that's the line; for example some small jellyfish)
They don't seem to need any duplication, since they regenerate their own self.

I don't doubt that passing of the genes is a likely first goal. But maybe it isn't that ingrained as current biology (?) presents it to be. I am not taking into account consciousness and intelligence - obviously humans can consciously not reproduce in the first place.
 
No Jeff Goldblum pics/gifs/memes? Tsk, tsk Lex, that's low-effort:nono:

That's me, low-effort lexi. I'm right there next to low-energy Jeb.
 
I don't doubt that passing of the genes is a likely first goal. But maybe it isn't that ingrained as current biology (?) presents it to be.

Yeah, don't take what I'm saying to mean that I think that every human on the planet is destined to have kids. It's just that if we're talking about the point of all life, you have no choice but to look at what all life has in common.
 
Yeah, don't take what I'm saying to mean that I think that every human on the planet is destined to have kids. It's just that if we're talking about the point of all life, you have no choice but to look at what all life has in common.

That isn't a point or a purpose, its an instinct.
A purpose requires conscious choice.
 
That isn't a point or a purpose, its an instinct.
A purpose requires conscious choice.
Such a choice though could happen at an individual level or at some higher organizational level including: a conscious designer or an unconscious perpetrator such as genetic material.
 
We were talking about the "point of life". Humanity is a super tiny part of all life. We've evolved to the point where we can stop and think and decide to do things other than what our biological urges tempt us to.

Most life spends most of its energy on trying to find food and water to sustain itself, I believe (but could be wrong). The ultimate goal in all this is eventual reproduction, though.

Isn't it obvious that the grand point of life is the passing on of the genes? (Maybe not? It seems clear to me, but what do I know) That's basically what life is - a duplication machine.. or rather a vessel built around a duplication machine (i.e. DNA)
I thought that human life was implied in the discussion.

That doesn't mean we have to talk exclusively in terms of human life, but it seemed clear to me, that if we were pondering and discussing the meaning of life, that it would be mostly from the perspective of the only species that was even capable of pondering such things.

I mean what position are we in to determine the point/meaning of the life of a mouse or an alligator or a maple tree? Shouldn't the alligator be the one to decide that? Human life is the form of life that we are best suited to contemplate the point/meaning of... maybe the only one.

At a minimum, once we get to the point where we can contemplate the point of our existence, I'd say we're way beyond absolute limiting that point to basic bodily functions. The fact that we're even discussing the point of life means that life has more point than just "reproduction"... otherwise, we would't be chatting on the internets, we'd be... you know.
 
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Some lifeforms are biologically immortal (or at least that's the line; for example some small jellyfish)
They don't seem to need any duplication, since they regenerate their own self.

I don't doubt that passing of the genes is a likely first goal. But maybe it isn't that ingrained as current biology (?) presents it to be. I am not taking into account consciousness and intelligence - obviously humans can consciously not reproduce in the first place.
I'm glad you mentioned this, because in thinking about what @warpus is discussing, I thought about some of the forms of life depicted in Star Trek. Take the Q for example... I think Q (John deLancie) at one point says that his child (played by the actor's RL son IIRC) was the first Q child in millennia. The point being that the Q had evolved beyond the need or even desire to reproduce. We see depictions in SciFi all the time of entities that have essentially transcended reproduction and are essentially eternal.

Another angle:
Spoiler Big spoiler for show "The 3%" :
on purpose not centered around reproduction is depicted in a show I saw on NETFLX. I spoilered because if someone wants to watch the show, knowing this essentially ruins it, but the point is that for a select few folks in this society depicted, losing the right to reproduce is part of how they give their lives meaning. It allows them to focus soley on the betterment if humanity rather than raising their own families.

Just some more thoughts on how life can have a point besides reproduction. :think:
 
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Such a choice though could happen at an individual level or at some higher organizational level including: a conscious designer or an unconscious perpetrator such as genetic material.

If someone else, aliens or god, is involved they might have a purpose for us, but I don't think genetic material has a purpose of its own anymore than a lawnmower does.
Something can be designed for a purpose but lack purpose of its own.
 
If someone else, aliens or god, is involved they might have a purpose for us, but I don't think genetic material has a purpose of its own anymore than a lawnmower does.
Something can be designed for a purpose but lack purpose of its own.
So to have purpose a thing must be separate and different from another thing that gives it purpose?
 
That is what I believe is wrong. Obviously I believe in quarks.
Ok.
So is it that you do not believe that light can be either a wave or a particle or that its form is undetermined until observed? Or is it the experiment itself is providing false results that you think are wrong?

Do you disagree that particles can be entangled or that the effects of entanglement (FTL communication, etc.) are wrong?
 
The point being that the Q had evolved beyond the need or even desire to reproduce.

Yeah, definitely! Even humans have evolved the ability to say "No more fornicating! I'm gonna play video games", or whatever

That isn't a point or a purpose, its an instinct.
A purpose requires conscious choice.

We are talking about the point and not the purpose, right? The point of life is to reproduce, generally speaking. If we look at individual species and in some cases individuals (i.e. you, me) then we can find other points. i.e. the point of my life is to eat, travel, and find amusement in things.

I thought that human life was implied in the discussion.

I suppose I read the thread title quite literally. In the case of human life though, yeah, we've evolved to a place where we can make up our own point to life, completely agreed! In the case of life in general though..
 
Ok.
So is it that you do not believe that light can be either a wave or a particle or that its form is undetermined until observed? Or is it the experiment itself is providing false results that you think are wrong?

I believe light is only a wave and is neither a particle or both. As for the experiment, I believe it's wrong because light could just be a wave (hence explaining the unusual behavior of the experiment). But scientists had foolishly tricked themselves into traditionally believing light is made up of particles before that experiment took place. So after the results of the experiment was analyzed, and they found wave like behavior, they jumped to conclusions and assumed it was both a particle and a wave. This is because they could not contemplate that, "you know what? maybe it's a wave after all!" due to them being too sentimental over insisting light must be particle based (which is complete bull because we know waves can bounce of off walls like particles).

Do you disagree that particles can be entangled or that the effects of entanglement (FTL communication, etc.) are wrong?

Fist of all. FTL communication is even debunked by quantum mechanics believers. Because even they know it would be a violation of the second law of thermodynamics. Instead they believe that quantum mechanics can be used for cryptography and true random number generation for computer calculations.

As for particles being entangled. They aren't entangled, they're waves! I believe this entanglement phenomenon is some kind of exotic wave interference, where the waves are able to make tiny wormholes that allow themselves to interact with each other from remote distances. Essentially these waves are bending and interacting with spacetime in ways we truly don't understand due to being unable to analyze them in a detailed meaningful way.
 
I believe light is only a wave and is neither a particle or both. As for the experiment, I believe it's wrong because light could just be a wave (hence explaining the unusual behavior of the experiment). But scientists had foolishly tricked themselves into traditionally believing light is made up of particles before that experiment took place. So after the results of the experiment was analyzed, and they found wave like behavior, they jumped to conclusions and assumed it was both a particle and a wave. This is because they could not contemplate that, "you know what? maybe it's a wave after all!" due to them being too sentimental over insisting light must be particle based (which is complete bull because we know waves can bounce of off walls like particles).
So this , from Wiki, is wrong?
Wave–particle duality is the concept in quantum mechanics that every particle or quantum entity may be described as either a particle or a wave. It expresses the inability of the classical concepts "particle" or "wave" to fully describe the behaviour of quantum-scale objects. As Albert Einstein wrote:[1]

"It seems as though we must use sometimes the one theory and sometimes the other, while at times we may use either. We are faced with a new kind of difficulty. We have two contradictory pictures of reality; separately neither of them fully explains the phenomena of light, but together they do."

Through the work of Max Planck, Albert Einstein, Louis de Broglie, Arthur Compton, Niels Bohr, and many others, current scientific theory holds that all particles exhibit a wave nature and vice versa.[2] This phenomenon has been verified not only for elementary particles, but also for compound particles like atoms and even molecules.


...As for particles being entangled. They aren't entangled, they're waves! I believe this entanglement phenomenon is some kind of exotic wave interference, where the waves are able to make tiny wormholes that allow themselves to interact with each other from remote distances. Essentially these waves are bending and interacting with spacetime in ways we truly don't understand due to being unable to analyze them in a detailed meaningful way.
Have there been any experiments to point in the direction of space-time wormholes connecting waves?

wiki said:
Quantum entanglement has been demonstrated experimentally with photons,[10][11] neutrinos,[12] electrons,[13][14] molecules as large as buckyballs,[15][16] and even small diamonds.[17][18]
Neutrinos are particles, buckyballs are actual molecules. Diamonds are even more complex. Electrons have been shown to be both particles and waves; is that also bad science? If photon waves are entangled through wave created worm holes, how would an atom get entangled if it is a not a wave?
 
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How is that contradictory?

Rather you suggest those who are not special shouldn't hold an opinion, as if you seem to be the arbiter of that.
You've missed my point. I didn't suggest that some people are special and entitled to opinions while others are not. That would be dehumanizing.

If you just read what I wrote you will see that I suggested the exact opposite. All human beings are special. The ability of humans to have an opinion is strong evidence for this.

You claimed it is a fact, in the context of existence, that no one is special. But your ability to make this claim actually indicates your specialness. This is what seemed contradictory to me. This was the point I was making.

My belief that all human beings are special should not be surprising to you, as you inferred this is what theists hold to.

Additionally, it seemed a bit contradictory for you to tell Gozpel that you had a problem with his question because, "it's a question many theists like to ask because they think they know everything, as well as how you should live your life" and then you proceed to tell him, "it's your life, you decide what to do with it" (which is telling him how to live his life).

I never said there was no point to Gozpel's existence, but there is no point to anyone's existence, including mine, in an objective sense. Everyone is going to have a subjective take on their own existence.
It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it to. You want the benefits of being able to dismiss any "point to your existence" when your conscience conflicts with your desires, while at the same time acting in accordance to your own purposes (as informed by your desires) under the guise of having your own subjective take. But if you take "no point to existence" to it's logical conclusion then you shouldn't be acting/doing anything.

Having a subjective take on say your favorite pizza topping makes sense. But denying an objective point to your existence seems equivalent to denying you exist. If the best you can do is create a subjective take on your own existence... then isn't this just an illusion? And then aren't you just an illusion? Certainly not, you know that you exist. But what are you tethered to?

The problem is when someone asks this question, it's going to invite people to suggest to those asking this very question how they should live their lives. For example, I say to Gozpel, you should live a happy, successful (as in wealthy), make friends and find love. Seems like a simple, harmless answer to that question, right? Unfortunately not.

Every positive answer to the question has its own problems. If you believe the meaning of life is to achieve happiness, then you would do anything to achieve happiness. In other words, if you take in a broad and more sinister sense, you could achieve happiness through pure sadism or schadenfreude. If you believe the meaning of life is to be wealthy, then that could suggest by any means necessary. If you believe having friends is important, then you must maintain your social network in such a way as to avoid disappointment from your friends, or worse, exclusion. If you believe the meaning of life is to find love, then, similar to wealth, it would be what sort of love and whether that love is healthy. Further, you would need to work really hard to find a partner and every time you feel rejection, it would make you feel really bad. Some people could use that answer to use love in a more manipulative sense. Suggesting any positive answer, which would often be a broad answer, would result in a variety of interpretations. It might give people focus, but it's a false and unnecessary target or goal and if they fail, it leads to an existential crisis.

If you give people that answer, they believe that their life must be successful in this way, otherwise they're a failure, which may cause more anxiety and, in some extreme circumstances, suicide. We've got so much anxiety in the world. Providing a positive answer might give someone focus but it would also stress them out, especially if they feel they're not achieving that meaning.
I agree that all of those pursuits you mentioned are meaningless vanities, like rings of smoke that can't be grasped. None of them will satisfy, none will ultimately provide any meaning. They might feel good in the moment but will always leaving you wanting. Did you check out Ecclesiastes?

Of course, theists would use these broad answers and detect that the answers are not subject to moral constraint and therefore, the discussion naturally moves to religion, as if to suggest you can achieve that meaning only with a set of moral rules deriving from a religion. You see? This question just a typical trick by theists into lulling mentally vulnerable people into joining their faith.
I'm a theist and I don't believe a person achieves meaning by following a set of moral rules, derived from religion or otherwise.

I add a "disclaimer" because someone would retort my post by saying "ok then, I may as well go kill myself or do something stupid then". My point is that you decide how to live your life and you must take responsibility for it.
Ok, I can see how adding that qualification preempts someone from attacking your position in that way. But wouldn't someone saying "I may as well go kill myself or someone else" be perfectly consistent with them deciding on how to live their life and taking responsibility for it? And how could anyone object to them doing those things (or even have an opinion about them) if you think there is no point to anyone's existence in an objective sense.

if you want a strict biological, emotionless answer to the question "what is the meaning of life", it perhaps be similar to finding love, but more specifically sex for the purpose of reproduction and nothing else, coupled with survival instincts.
Ah, ok. So you do think there might be a point to existence after all.
 
Belief in god gets us out of about as many dilemmas as disbelief does... and vice-versa. All we're doing with belief is just replacing one problem with a different problem.
Beliefs can be correct or incorrect. Note that I used the word "seems," because if God does exist then disbelief won't actually get you out of any dilemmas.
 
To not believe in quantum mechanics is a bit like not believing in newtonian mechanics. Sure, we know neither is a complete description of the way the world works, but they both describe reality well enough for us to do things, say IT and lobbing cannon balls respectively. The interpretations of quantum mechanics get much more into the realm of belief, but I am not sure how much anyone really believes in them.
 
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