What is your view on capital punishment?

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by IglooDude
Me? Sure. Feel free to point out flaws, if I can tune up the idea in CFC OT perhaps I'll push for legislation on it.

It is great. A truly wonderful idea if it is cost-effective.

 

[Dann]

Originally posted by IglooDude
Here's an alternative - instead of the death penalty, put the convict into an artificial coma until their (say) 70th birthday, or their natural death, whichever comes first. That way, it isn't "permanent" but has the same effect of preventing the person from ever getting their life back, and it would probably be cheaper than "normal" prison OR execution and would not endanger prison guards or other prisoners by close contact with a person who literally has nothing to live for. Also, it would function the same as life imprisonment as far as convicting innocents go - if the person is later determined to be innocent they can simply be woken up.

Bad idea. Do you realize how much equipment and resources you'll be wasting to maintain these people's lives? Plus these expenses will end up being paid by the taxpayers!

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Enslave them. 14 hours a day every day of the week. They get Christmas off.

Now THAT is truly a good alternative to the death penalty. Why should taxpayers have to pay for supporting criminals for life? Let them earn their own upkeep!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

No death penalty.

Justice is not perfect. Since we can't be 100% sure in every case, there should be no penalty that can't be reversed.

I would lean toward allowing special instances of capital conviction in cases with overwhelming physical evidence and multiple reliable eyewitnesses, but even then there's a chance for mistakes, so... no.

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
No death penalty.

Justice is not perfect. Since we can't be 100% sure in every case, there should be no penalty that can't be reversed.

I would lean toward allowing special instances of capital conviction in cases with overwhelming physical evidence and multiple reliable eyewitnesses, but even then there's a chance for mistakes, so... no.

funny that the two of us should ever agree, but that is 100% my position.


I could personally rip the heart out of a child molseters chest using my bare hands. I could torture rapists and mass murders.

But the risk of 'screwing up' is too big.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Well, you're finally being reasonable and logical...

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
Well, you're finally being reasonable and logical...

I was tempted to write that about you, as many christians rather whine about how man should not put himself inot gods place (taking lives) or that the bible has CP in it (depending what side they are on).

 

[FearlessLeader2]

This is a question whose answer is so obvious I actually can answer it without God's direct help. 'Love thy neighbor' suffices.

We don't execute people we love when we can't be sure if they've done something to warrant it.

EDIT:

Whattya think of my new avatar?

 

[Iggy]

Taking forward Igloodude's proposal of different treatment for this category of criminal: I like the idea of sending people convicted for certain levels of heinous crimes to a third world prison. An agreed standard of what constituted 100% guilt would have to be established. (The country would enjoy the revenue, the country of origin would save money and the criminal would suffer).

 

[FearlessLeader2]

IglooDude,
Why stop there? You're proposing a vivarium, why not turn it into an organ bank? It's a short fall from that ghastly horror to the next...

Read Larry Niven's "A Gift From Earth"

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Enslave them. 14 hours a day every day of the week. They get Christmas off.

Which leads to bankrupcy of hard working people that actually have to pay their employee!

rmsharpe, I expect you to agree with me that it is the government's task to create and protect an environment where businesses have fair chances! Fair meaning: No false concurrency!

Maybe your point is feasible, when 'contracting prisoners' can (and will) be done by privatised businesses.

Are we willing to put the guarding of murderers in the hands of privatised institutions?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

I am. Prisons should be run on a paying basis. I think all aspects of government that can be privatised, should be. The smaller a human-run government is the less damage it can do.

 

[IglooDame]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
IglooDude,
Why stop there? You're proposing a vivarium, why not turn it into an organ bank? It's a short fall from that ghastly horror to the next...

Read Larry Niven's "A Gift From Earth"

Why stop there? Because where I stopped is where the crucial "non-permanence of the punishment" stops. If someone is found to be innocent they can be woken up and freed. If they're donated to an organ bank #1 society would actually benefit from punishing them in that way, which introduces the (incredibly slim but still existing) possibility of jurors thinking that imposing such a sentence has an upside and thus influencing their verdict, and #2 if innocence is proven after the trial and sentencing their punishment cannot be commuted.

Murder is a ghastly horror and I don't really have any sympathy for murderers on death row except to the extent that they may indeed be innocent.

And thanks, I'll check out the book, I've read and enjoyed several other Niven novels.

 

[Iggy]

FL2. As a matter of interest from a religious perspective, what is the maximum level of suffering you would condone for a convicted child molester / serial rapist / mass murderer?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by Iggy
FL2. As a matter of interest from a religious perspective, what is the maximum level of suffering you would condone for a convicted child molester / serial rapist / mass murderer?

If it was my child, wife, or other loved one that was the victim, I'd tear the guilty party limb from limb with my bare hands. I'd then plead 'not guilty by reason of temporary insanity'.

The emotional response is easy in that case, and it's always 'Do as I say, not as I do.' I'm only human. I'd sue the cops that let me get at the guy who did it too.

If they managed to restrain me and let the legal system handle it... Life in prison, no parole, hard labor. No TV, no gym, no spa.

 

[Kev1916]

Originally posted by marioh
If it can be proven 100% that a person is guilty of the crime charged against him, then I'm behind the death penalty.

I'd much rather see my hard earned tax money go to providing food and shelter to homeless people than to convicted felons.

==

Agreed,

Child killers and serial killers should be killed

 

[Iggy]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
If it was my child, wife, or other loved one that was the victim, I'd tear the guilty party limb from limb with my bare hands.

Yes I think that would be the response of most of us. I was thinking more on the general question. How much suffering do you think a criminal as in my previous post be allowed to endure?

 

[Kev1916]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
I am. Prisons should be run on a paying basis. I think all aspects of government that can be privatised, should be. The smaller a human-run government is the less damage it can do.

===

Totally disagree Prisons should not be Privatised, the aim of a privatise company its to make profit and as such the quality of service will go down and as is happening in Scotland you employ the cheapest and often stupidest people and as a result mistakes can and do happen.

Prisons should be run by well trained and well paid staff.

And as far as my experience tells me the less public services that are privatised the better, people should come before profit.

 

[thestonesfan]

Then why do dumbest people work for public services?

 

[carlosMM]

tsf: because they can't get better people - they pay too little.
In my field of work, even universities with a 'good name' can't keep the best people. I myself am pretty much tempted to go and earn 4 times my wage in the free market industry - and you know how idealistic I am.

It is even worse for people who do not work for their own fun, as I do, but simply for money.

Would you want to be a lowpaid jailer?

 

[Knowze Gungk]

I say we bring in the "Unreal Tournament" system. Those who take pleasure in killing others, shall do nothing but, for the rest of their short lives. And the whole world will be entertained by their clownish antics, via satellite.

It's the ultimate form of justice, everyone wins.