CApital Punishment, Child Rape, and Unintended Consequences

[Evie]

There is of course the whole "in for a penny, in for a pound"; if you are going to get the death penalty for raping a child, may as will kill the child afterwards and reduce the probability of getting caught.

Agreed with this (as well as the reporting) problem.

This is a bad move by any definition.

 

[Brighteye]

Why is child rape so much worse than adult rape? Why is child rape so much worse than stabbing a child?
If you stab a child, you're making a hole and inserting something into it. If you rape a child you're not making a whole new hole.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Elrohir,

Oh, I don't think you're being overly pessimistic at all. I genuinely think you brought up a good point. Pedophiles who can't control their sexual urges are out of their minds, and deterrence is an effort to appeal to potential criminals' rational minds. Deterrence will keep some kid from taking up a job with the local crack gang, but it's not going to stop Buffalo Bill.

Regarding the idea that killing pedophiles keeps them from committing crimes when they're dead (there's a term for it in criminology, but I forget), I personally think that the state killing people is wrong, but the idea that you just have to remove certain people from society which lies at the core of your prescription is correct. I just think it's better served through involuntary institutionalization, or life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Cleo

 

[Elrohir]

Why is child rape so much worse than adult rape? Why is child rape so much worse than stabbing a child?
If you stab a child, you're making a hole and inserting something into it. If you rape a child you're not making a whole new hole.

Words fail me.

 

[Sims2789]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/2008-04-07-court_N.htm

Spoiler :

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court will weigh the constitutionality of the death penalty for child rape next week, in the case of a Louisiana man convicted of raping his 8-year-old stepdaughter.

The dispute, closely followed by state officials, social workers and defendants' rights groups, marks the first time since 1977 that the justices will consider whether rape can be punished by death. The justices said no in the case three decades ago, involving a 16-year-old married woman whom the court referred to as an adult.

Several states, including Missouri, have signaled that if the court permits the death penalty for child rape in Louisiana, they may try to enact such laws. Five states already plainly allow capital punishment for raping young children. Social workers warn that if the court sanctions the penalty for child rape, it could further discourage reporting of the crime because in the majority of child sexual assaults, the attacker is a relative or friend of the victim.

The dispute the justices will hear next Wednesday arises as prosecutors nationwide are obtaining significantly fewer death sentences annually than a decade ago. A de facto moratorium on capital punishment is also in place while the Supreme Court considers a separate dispute over lethal injection.

Louisiana argues that national outrage over sex crimes against children, along with efforts by some states to make rape a death penalty offense, should lead the court to uphold a Louisiana death sentence for Patrick Kennedy.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Washington | Texas | Oklahoma | Alabama | Colorado | South Carolina | Missouri | Mississippi | Idaho | Constitution | African-American | Civil Liberties Union | Stanford University | Cruz | Jefferson Parish | Eighth Amendment | Louisiana Supreme Court | Patrick Kennedy | Coker | Jeffrey Fisher | Sexual Assault | National Association of Social Workers

The trend, asserts Juliet Clark, assistant Jefferson Parish district attorney, "strongly supports imposition of the death penalty for this exceedingly grave offense."

Kennedy's lawyer counters that there are signs that society believes death is excessive for rape, including that no one in America has been executed for any rape in more than 43 years. "Although rape is a very serious crime," attorney Jeffrey Fisher says, "no rapist should be punished more severely than the average … murderer, who by definition is not subject to capital punishment." The death penalty has traditionally been reserved for the worst of society's criminals.

The justices' view of such societal trends will matter in Kennedy v. Louisiana, because the court looks for evidence of a national consensus when deciding whether a sentence violates notions of decency embodied in the Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

In recent death penalty cases, the court has noted state trends in exempting the mentally ******** and teenagers from the ultimate punishment. In 2002, the court struck down the death penalty for mentally ******** defendants, and in 2005, it invalidated capital punishment for defendants who were under 18 at the time of their crimes.

After police were called to investigate the rape of the girl on March 2, 1998, Kennedy's stepdaughter initially told them that two neighborhood boys had raped her after dragging her from her garage to a side yard. Police, however, found evidence of blood in her bedroom that Kennedy apparently had tried to clean up. The stepdaughter testified later that Kennedy had raped her and urged her to relate a false account.

A jury convicted Kennedy in 2003, under a statute that permits the death penalty for anyone found guilty of raping someone under 12. The Louisiana Supreme Court rejected Kennedy's appeal that his death sentence violated the Eighth Amendment. It emphasized the need to protect children.

In Kennedy's appeal to the Supreme Court, Fisher, a Stanford University law professor, says that since the 1977 case of Coker v. Georgia, the court has not allowed capital punishment for any crime involving "person-on-person violence" that did not lead to a death.

Clark, who will argue for Louisiana, counters in her filing that times have changed. She says several states and the U.S. government have authorized the death penalty for non-homicide offenses, such as espionage. She also points to the recent enactment of "Megan's Laws" requiring sex offenders to register in their cities as a reflection of concern about child sexual assault.

Texas Solicitor General Ted Cruz, who will argue on behalf of nine other states supporting Louisiana's position, says, "The Constitution permits democratically elected legislatures to choose to allow the most serious punishment for the very worst child rapists."

The states that have signed Cruz's brief are Texas, Alabama, Colorado, Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Washington.

Among the groups siding with Kennedy, who is African-American, are the American Civil Liberties Union, which emphasizes the South's history of executing blacks for rape more often than whites, and the National Association of Social Workers.

Joining the social worker group, Judy Benitez, director of the Louisiana Foundation against Sexual Assault, said most sexual abuse is committed by victims' relatives or friends. "This can lead to ambivalence on the part of the victim and her family about reporting the abuse," Benitez said. "We believe that if the specter of the death penalty is out there, it will lead to more underreporting. The victim might think, 'I wanted the abuse to stop, but I didn't want him to die.' "

The issue at hand is in those bolded paragraphs; If the death penalty is the primary sentence for rape of a child it is possible that it could lead to less reporting and higher incidence of child rape? Considering that most forms of sexual abuse occur by a family member or friend, there might be less incentive to report the crime because of the harsh penalties.

Knowing this possibility do you think the death penalty for sex abuse of a child is a good idea?

When I was 18, I had sex with a 16 year old with whom I went out with for 8 months. It was consensual, but she was below the age of consent. Would I get executed? Does "states' rights" trump individual liberty in this case?

Even so, are they 100% positive that the accused is guilty?

Rape deserves death, but I oppose the death penalty for any crime because innocent people will inevitably be falsely convicted and executed, even if you only reserve capital punishment for extreme cases.

 

[mrt144]

well the other thing that would suck is the possibility of a he said she said situation that would lead to the death penalty. absent actual evidence of the crime perpetrated (it's my understanding that a lot of cases against molesters and the like gain more traction based on multiple victims coming forward) you could have a situation where people are put to death due to a bunch of mischievous children or parents trying to ruin someone. with death as the consequence. .

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yeah, the McMartin case comes to mind. On the other hand, what is often overlooked in discussions of capital punishment is that the verdict and the sentence are different things. If an innocent person is sentenced to death, it is the verdict that is at fault.

 

[mrt144]

Yeah, the McMartin case comes to mind. On the other hand, what is often overlooked in discussions of capital punishment is that the verdict and the sentence are different things. If an innocent person is sentenced to death, it is the verdict that is at fault.

oh god, don't remind me.

"Some of the accusations were bizarre.[6] It was alleged that, in addition to having been sexually abused, they saw witches fly, traveled in a hot-air balloon, and were taken through underground tunnels.[4] When shown a series of photographs by Danny Davis, the McMartin's lawyer, one child identified actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers.[3] There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports, and of children being flushed down toilets to secret rooms where they would be abused, then cleaned up and presented back to their unsuspecting parents. Some children said they were made to play a game called "Naked Movie Star" in which they were photographed nude."

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yes, it would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

But the point is, what saved the McMartins wasn't that the death penalty wasn't applied in their case, but that they were not actually convicted.

 

[JeffersonDavis]

I'm here for teh child rape.

 

[emzie]

Oh the point of such laws isn't to prevent child abuse, but to make law makers look tough on a crime for which there is no pity for the accused.

I'm here for teh child rape.

Dunno who's double login you are, but that was funny.

 

[Shaihulud]

I am against death sentence for this, and i do not count consensual sex with a minor as rape, maybe in some cases distasteful, but not rape. Real rapist should have their testicles surgically removed to preven them from committing such a crime.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If they limited this to young children - say, 12 and under - I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

You still have a problem: "She looked 12 to me Judge, honest"

 

[Den Valdron]

I am against death sentence for this, and i do not count consensual sex with a minor as rape, maybe in some cases distasteful, but not rape. Real rapist should have their testicles surgically removed to preven them from committing such a crime.

Won't work.

 

[Leonel]

I can see this as being a bad idea. Primarily on the grounds that people that plead innocent might get it. I'm all for executing child rapists that publicly admit and have absolutely no remorse for their actions, that I can go for no doubt.

But if I recall there are cases in which someone accused someone else of rape and 20 years later it turned out the accusations were just a way of getting attention and the accused was innocent all the long.

There could also be further ramifications of people trying to get rid of other people by claiming they raped their kid and kids being trusting of authority figures will do as their folks say.

 

[Narz]

Joining the social worker group, Judy Benitez, director of the Louisiana Foundation against Sexual Assault, said most sexual abuse is committed by victims' relatives or friends. "This can lead to ambivalence on the part of the victim and her family about reporting the abuse," Benitez said. "We believe that if the specter of the death penalty is out there, it will lead to more underreporting. The victim might think, 'I wanted the abuse to stop, but I didn't want him to die.' "

This makes sense. The rapist should receive the worst punishment available outside of death. I would have supported this anyway as, IMO, life in prison is a more brutal punishment than a painless death.

 

[Shadylookin]

didn't the supreme court rule that you can't give the death penalty for rape?

Either way I'm against it because I just envision an 18 year old being hanged because he boned some higher up's 17 year old daughter.

 

[Narz]

didn't the supreme court rule that you can't give the death penalty for rape?

Either way I'm against it because I just envision an 18 year old being hanged because he boned some higher up's 17 year old daughter.

Yeah, well I think it's a sick reflection of on society that something like that could be considered in the same league as the abuse of a 7 year old.

 

[Shadylookin]

Yeah, well I think it's a sick reflection of on society that something like that could be considered in the same league as the abuse of a 7 year old.

that's nothing you can get more jail time for copying a movie than for molesting a child

 

[Narz]

that's nothing you can get more jail time for copying a movie than for molesting a child

Are you serious?

The sad thing is that so many people get away the latter also. I've known a few girls who were molested when they were young and none of them ever reported it to the authorities (usually because it was a relative or in one case, their mother's boyfriend).