What makes a religion a religion?

[warpus]

non-humans have no need for religion?

What about angels and stuff? Or other species of animal other than human who at some point in the future become sentient? Or intelligent robots, also in the far future?

But if you're asking me, I would say nobody really needs religion unless they convince themselves or are convinced by an outside agent that they do. You won't die without religion. It is not required.

 

[Borachio]

Religion is entirely dependent upon Homo sapiens' anatomy.

Well, as far as I understand what Campbell is saying, no, it isn't. But maybe I've misread the quotes I quoted.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I'm the kind of guy who drives around a snowmobile. no need for tires for me.

Please post a picture or it didnt happen.
To come back to the methaphor its the "air" that matters not what its used to fill.
Now, tell me what kind of guy you are....

You can live without any kind of formal religion, sure. But the point is you cant live without some kind of unconscious spirituality cause the spiritual is the quintesence of anything physical, mental or psychic which forms your consciousness. Organised religions are supposed to be an instruments to facilitate this understanding to human heart and intelect. Not to enslave man but to serve him.

 

[warpus]

You can live without any kind of formal religion, sure. But the point is you cant live without some kind of unconscious spirituality cause the spiritual is the quintesence of anything physical, mental or psychic which forms your consciousness. Organised religions are supposed to be an instruments to facilitate this understanding to human heart and intelect. Not to enslave man but to serve him.

Spirituality and religion can exist as mutually exclusive entities. I said that you don't need religion. You might need some level of spirituality, but I'm not exactly convinced there either. It's a luxury as far as I can see so far.

 

[Traitorfish]

You can live without any kind of formal religion, sure. But the point is you cant live without some kind of unconscious spirituality

Eh, watch me.

 

[timtofly]

Religion is entirely dependent upon Homo sapiens' anatomy.

Well, as far as I understand what Campbell is saying, no, it isn't. But maybe I've misread the quotes I quoted.

Well it is. The point being that everything a human would entertain as it's own, is entirely dependent upon Homo sapiens' anatomy.

The point of question; are some ideologies not limited to the human experience or mind, but lay outside of it.

People come together for social ideologies. People come together for religious ideologies. People even come together for economic ideologies. Humans come up with concepts of God that fit into the human anatomy/mental ideology. What if God cannot fit into such a fixed reference?

@Warpus

The point is we are talking about humans, even if you entertain the ideal of sidestepping the issue.

High Traitorfish, do you feel as if you are being watched?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Spirituality and religion can exist as mutually exclusive entities. I said that you don't need religion. You might need some level of spirituality, but I'm not exactly convinced there either. It's a luxury as far as I can see so far.

The claim I made is that everybody needs some form of unconscious spirituality. It can manifest as your desire and your religion then can be fulfilment of that desire.

Eh, watch me.

I am watching you....

From strict spiritual sense anything is Yoga - the movement of Force. From the erosion of stone to the illumination of Nirvana. I am sure you fit somewhere in between....

 

[warpus]

The claim I made is that everybody needs some form of unconscious spirituality. It can manifest as your desire and your religion then can be fulfilment of that desire.

"Unconscious spirituality" is so vague that I might as well agree. I mean, that could very well include things like an urge to eat bacon.

 

[Borachio]

Or an urge to live life rationally? Without any of the trappings of organized religion or even dilettante spirituality?

Yup. You're inescapably spiritual.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

"Unconscious spirituality" is so vague that I might as well agree. I mean, that could very well include things like an urge to eat bacon.

Absolutely. Spirituality is something natural. What may seem as an absurdity now may be something as eating bacon some time in the future. After all two billions years in the past eating of bacon would be absurdity as well.

 

[warpus]

I would just never define spirituality like that. I would define it as something that in the end is quite optional - and definitely not a necessity. If you looked up the definition of the word as it is generally used by people, you would probably find that it jives with my definition rather than yours, too.

 

[peter grimes]

Absolutely. Spirituality is something natural. What may seem as an absurdity now may be something as eating bacon some time in the future. After all two billions years in the past eating of bacon would be absurdity as well.

This is exactly the sort of squishy "reasoning" that gives religious believers a bad reputation. Define your terms and stick to them, otherwise you bring the discussion to an abrupt end.

Do you see spirituality as a quality that all people have, like a sense of self or a sense of time? What about people lie Warpus who profess to have no sense of spirituality? How do you account for that?

You can't usefully define spirituality so broadly as to encompass both eating bacon and being touched by the divine. That makes a mockery of millions of believers. Can't have that now, can we?

 

[Borachio]

The thing is here, though: the believers, as the term is generally understood, are most likely the least genuinely spiritual people. While highly skeptical people, like warpus, might be described as the more authentically spiritual.

I offer this merely as a suggestion. Not as any kind of judgement on anyone, in any way, whatsoever.

(I thought I'd better emphasize this. Shall I underline it, too? I think I will.)

edit: I offer this merely as a suggestion. Not as any kind of judgement on anyone, in any way, whatsoever.

 

[timtofly]

This is exactly the sort of squishy "reasoning" that gives religious believers a bad reputation. Define your terms and stick to them, otherwise you bring the discussion to an abrupt end.

Do you see spirituality as a quality that all people have, like a sense of self or a sense of time? What about people lie Warpus who profess to have no sense of spirituality? How do you account for that?

You can't usefully define spirituality so broadly as to encompass both eating bacon and being touched by the divine. That makes a mockery of millions of believers. Can't have that now, can we?

Would the fact that not eating bacon, even qualify as a religion? It is certainly personal, but how many religious truths can be made from just eating or not eating bacon?

The thing is here, though: the believers, as the term is generally understood, are most likely the least genuinely spiritual people. While highly skeptical people, like warpus, might be described as the more authentically spiritual.

I offer this merely as a suggestion. Not as any kind of judgement on anyone, in any way, whatsoever.

(I thought I'd better emphasize this. Shall I underline it, too? I think I will.)

edit: I offer this merely as a suggestion. Not as any kind of judgement on anyone, in any way, whatsoever.

I doubt any one here will accuse you of starting a religion, but......

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I would just never define spirituality like that. I would define it as something that in the end is quite optional - and definitely not a necessity. If you looked up the definition of the word as it is generally used by people, you would probably find that it jives with my definition rather than yours, too.

Really? What is optional about your existence? You can destroy yourself partly but your consciousness willl go on untill you reach your true-self. Spirituality is not an option but an essence. Any desire of yours reflects within itself search for that true- self no matter how dimly.

This is exactly the sort of squishy "reasoning" that gives religious believers a bad reputation. Define your terms and stick to them, otherwise you bring the discussion to an abrupt end.

Do you see spirituality as a quality that all people have, like a sense of self or a sense of time? What about people lie Warpus who profess to have no sense of spirituality? How do you account for that?

You can't usefully define spirituality so broadly as to encompass both eating bacon and being touched by the divine. That makes a mockery of millions of believers. Can't have that now, can we?

here is wiki: The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition,[1][2] although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.

For practical purpose I define spirituality as prayer, meditation, service and any other conscious activity which helps one to find spiritual fulfilment but I can see that it is much broader field. It encopasses all.

Regarded people who profess to have no sense of spirituality I say what I said before. There is subconscious spirituality in every one. We are all an instruments of spiritual inteligence. You can try to defy that your whole life or simply not be aware of it but while defying you are already exercising your spirituality.

 

[Borachio]

Would the fact that not eating bacon, even qualify as a religion? It is certainly personal, but how many religious truths can be made from just eating or not eating bacon?

Don't a number of religions make a biiiig point about not eating bacon? It's all besides the point, though, eating or not eating bacon is just a group marker: these people over here eat bacon, therefore they must be more impure than us, better folk, who eschew it. The bigots!

Anyway, what was I going to say?

Yeah, it may well be possible to go through the whole of one's life without considering religious/spiritual/metaphysical issues at all. But why would/does anyone do this?

It's possible to go through life without considering politics, philosophy, psychology, quantum mechanics, art, music, history, cosmology, etc. I know a few people who very seldom read anything at all, and they don't seem to miss it.

I think in a quite literal sense that philosophy is a kind of spiritual search in any case.

What am I trying to say? Dunno. Lost the track.

 

[timtofly]

I would say that spirituality and religion by extension is optional, and not necessary to enjoying life. Of course the power of suggestion would like to prove other wise. Didn't John Locke explore the thought that humans are free to choose and not bound by unknown forces?

 

[warpus]

@Mechanicalsalvation Like I said, I define spirituality much differently than you.