What new wonder do you want to see in CivVII?

[BackseatTyrant]

Personally, I'm more on the "More Wonder = Better"-line of things, especially if we're talking about wonders whose real world equivalents are in geographically under-represented regions. However, I would also draw the line at:

• Over-representation of specific cities. I've seen some mods that promises to add many more wonders, I take a look, and it turns out over half of those wonders are just various landmarks in Washington D.C. and New York City, while barely any from the global south show up
• Buildings named after the cities they're in. This is especially the case with universities and religious buildings; after a while, you'd include so many [City name] Cathedrals, that it'd feel pointless to have cathedrals as a regular building
• Buildings named after historic individuals. See the post I made earlier in this thread
• Wonders that aren't buildings but social constructs. Please, no more Rock & Roll, Theory of Evolution or Cure for Cancer; such discoveries belong in the tech and/or civics tree. To me, a wonder has to be a physical piece of infrastructure that can at least somewhat alter a city's skyline, and yes, that would include renaming e.g. The Oracle to Delphi Oracle Complex, The Red Cross to Red Cross Headquarters and United Nations to UN Headquarters.
• Prehistoric wonders, for the most part. Stonehenge is fine, but beyond that, I feel these structures would serve better in the game as either natural wonders or archaeological sites

On that note, I would like to see the first instance of each regular building provide a culture/tourism bonus in the late game. Like, if you can prove your city has the oldest still operational granary in the world, don't tell me said granary could never become a tourist attraction based on that fact. Also, this could represent how in the real world, countries like Egypt and China use their long lineages to distant antiquity to gain cultural capital on the world stage

 

[pokiehl]

The most popular idea I've ever seen on here is "randomize the wonders available each game". That way the game can have as many wonders as wanted, all can be powerful, but since only X number of wonders are even available each game there don't end up being too many available.

Also you have to adapt to what wonders are even available every game, instead of always being able to count on which ones are available.

I have a hard time believing that’s a popular idea.

I don’t want wonders limited at all. I’d be pretty annoyed if “randomized selection of wonders” were forced on me.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I have a hard time believing that’s a popular idea.

I don’t want wonders limited at all. I’d be pretty annoyed if “randomized selection of wonders” were forced on me.

Completely agree.

But then, I am a self-confessed Wonder Hog who will always compromise my march to victory to pump out another Wonder.
If there was a 12-step treatment program for this affliction I'd be its Poster Boy.

Besides, there are better ways to 'limit' Wonder production in a game:
- Tighten up on requirements for a Wonder, including Civic, Social Policy, Government-type, Religion, so that there is simply no way your Civ can qualify to build all the wonders or even a majority of them without Major Effort in a single game.
- Make Wonders more specific, not less. I posted earlier a list of religious Wonders that could each be the Central Temple of a specific religion: found that religion, you get to build that Wonder, but nobody else can in that game - and some of those would have bonuses useful even if you had no interest in a Religious Victory.
- Make other Wonders the 'capstone' structure for a given building: a Wonderous Market, or Library, or University, or Civic Monument, as examples. The Wonder would replace the structure in that city, and being a World Wonder, possibly add bonuses to all or nearby cities in addition to the city in which it is built.

Any or more of these types of things would also reduce the 'Wonder Race' in a game since they would make the requirements to even start the race harder - but not eliminate the Races completely.

Wonders are a place where Civ VII doesn't need a major change, IMHO, but some adjustments would be nice.

 

[AffineConstant]

I have a hard time believing that’s a popular idea.

I don’t want wonders limited at all. I’d be pretty annoyed if “randomized selection of wonders” were forced on me.

There's more likes on it than names allowed! Also there's already randomized natural wonders to find every game. There's X Civs ever game instead of all of them. There's a randomized map unless you're choosing a predefined one.

I'm sure there'd be a "standard list of wonders" on the game options just like there's fixed maps, would that be enough to overcome your objections?

 

[pokiehl]

I'm sure there'd be a "standard list of wonders" on the game options just like there's fixed maps, would that be enough to overcome your objections?

I agree with Boris that wonder-hogging is part of the fun of Civ.

That said, I definitely don’t want to stop people from having fun in Civ their own way. Maybe a good solution would be to have a “Wonder picker” like the “Natural Wonder Picker” and “City-State Picker” options we got in Civ 6.

I’m just skeptical this is a problem in the first place because “too many wonders” is not one of the common complaints I’ve seen online. Some of the most popular mods are additional wonders and natural wonders; I figured most people just like having more like I do.

 

[AffineConstant]

I agree with Boris that wonder-hogging is part of the fun of Civ.

That said, I definitely don’t want to stop people from having fun in Civ their own way. Maybe a good solution would be to have a “Wonder picker” like the “Natural Wonder Picker” and “City-State Picker” options we got in Civ 6.

I’m just skeptical this is a problem in the first place because “too many wonders” is not one of the common complaints I’ve seen online. Some of the most popular mods are additional wonders and natural wonders; I figured most people just like having more like I do.

It's not that it's a "problem", yet, though it could be if there were "too many wonders" (are they too powerful? is there too many to choose from?).

It's that it sounds fun to me, and apparently a lot of people, to not be able to rely on having known wonders available in each game. Having to adapt to what wonders are even available would be part of the fun, just like having to adapt to the terrain, to what civs are on the map and where, etc. etc. "Random wonders" sounds like an option I'd choose every single time, just like I choose "random civs" each time and "randomize tech tree" each time.

 

[GeneralZift]

There is a possibility that one day we could have too many wonders, just like you might have too many units, too many buildings etc.
By that, I mean we could see the kind of choice paralysis creep in.

BUT I doubt it.
First of all mostly because Firaxis is smarter than to add a couple dozen pointless wonders for that choice paralysis reason.
But secondly because it's extra effort and time that could be spent elsewhere.

Extra wonders would lessen the impact of the existing wonders and random wonders would not fix that at all.

Random NATURAL wonders work because you randomise the map and that nature may or may not appear.

Random MANMADE wonders won't ever make sense. You're telling me I can build The Pyramids in one game but not the next even if I spawn in the same exact environment?
Would just be confusing.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Anyway, my shortlist (that is, if 45 is considered a low number) would consist pretty strictly of one per present-day nation state

• Alhambra (SPAIN)
• Al-Karaouine (MOROCCO)
• Angkor Wat (CAMBODIA)
• Apadana (IRAN)
• Belem Tower (PORTUGAL)
• Brandenburg Gate (GERMANY)
• Buddhas of Bayman (AFGHANISTAN)
• Borobudur (INDONESIA)
• Casa Poporului (ROMANIA)
• Cristo Redentor (BRAZIL)
• CN Tower (CANADA)
• Debre Dammo (ETHIOPIA)
• Eiffel Tower (FRANCE)
• Flavian Amphitheatre (ITALY)
• Forbidden Palace (CHINA)
• Global Seed Vault (NORWAY)
• Globe Arena (SWEDEN)
• Great Bath (PAKISTAN)
• Great Enclosure (ZIMBABWE)
• Great Pyramids (EGYPT)
• Hagia Sofia (TURKEY)
• Hanging Gardens (IRAQ)
• Incheon Airport (KOREA)
• Itaipu Dam (PARAGUAY)
• Itsukushima Shrine (JAPAN)
• Kuala Lumpur (MALAYSIA)
• Machu Picchu (PERU)
• Maeslantkering (NETHERLANDS)
• Malbork Castle (POLAND)
• Mji Mkongwe (TANZANIA)
• Országház (HUNGARY)
• Palace of Westminster (ENGLAND)
• Parthenon (GREECE)
• Plain of Jars (LAOS)
• Red Cross Headquarters (SWITZERLAND)
• Registan (UZBEKISTAN)
• Sacred Mosque (ARABIA)
• Saint Basil's Cathedral (RUSSIA)
• Saint Sophia's Cathedral (UKRAINE)
• Sankoré Madrasah (MALI)
• Shwedagon Paya (MYANMAR)
• Statue of Liberty (AMERICA)
• Sydney Opera House (AUSTRALIA)
• Taj Mahal (INDIA)
• Temple of Kukulcan (MEXICO)

Hopefully this selection is diverse and evenly spread out enough, both in terms of geography, age and function

 

[GeneralZift]

Sacred Mosque (ARABIA)

I feel like this one could upset some people I'm not sure though

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I only picked it because it's easily the most recognizable landmark of the Arabic-speaking world, though I could easily swap it out for Petra if it would indeed prove too controversial

 

[Vandlys]

I feel like this one could upset some people I'm not sure though

Why would you think so? The muslims I know would be honoured to see something like this used as a wonder in a video game.

To be honest, I think everything has the ability to upset some people.

I only picked it because it's easily the most recognizable landmark of the Arabic-speaking world, though I could easily swap it out for Petra if it would indeed prove too controversial

You mean, aside from the Pyramids, the Hanging Gardens, Al-Karaouine, or Palmyra?

I'm just joshing I know what you mean.

 

[Blue whale]

I only picked it because it's easily the most recognizable landmark of the Arabic-speaking world, though I could easily swap it out for Petra if it would indeed prove too controversial

Also which one?

 

[Leyrann]

I only picked it because it's easily the most recognizable landmark of the Arabic-speaking world, though I could easily swap it out for Petra if it would indeed prove too controversial

I have no clue which mosque it's referring to, soooo...

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I have no clue which mosque it's referring to, soooo...

It's the big one in Mecca, the one with the Kaaba