The first type is the 'traditional' type of Wonder in the game, with perhaps a bit more exclusiveness provided by 'typing' the Wonders as to their benefits and what ordinary construction they replace.
This is a bit of a case of splitting hairs, but I thought the 'traditional' type of wonders in the game in the series were the ones that would at least partially be replaced with Great People. Think J.S. Bach's Cathedral, Copernicus' Observatory, Leonardo's Workshop etcetera. I'm fairly certain the only reason Oxford University has the position it has in the game series, is because it's supposed to specifically represent Isaac Newton's scientific achievements, given it used to be called Isaac Newton's College. Personally, I'm glad the series moved away from these depictions, and towards actual real world landmarks
This is a bit of a case of splitting hairs, but I thought the 'traditional' type of wonders in the game in the series were the ones that would at least partially be replaced with Great People. Think J.S. Bach's Cathedral, Copernicus' Observatory, Leonardo's Workshop etcetera. I'm fairly certain the only reason Oxford University has the position it has in the game series, is because it's supposed to specifically represent Isaac Newton's scientific achievements, given it used to be called Isaac Newton's College. Personally, I'm glad the series moved away from these depictions, and towards actual real world landmarks
Oxford miiiight be the oldest active university on the planet, depending on what you consider "active". Historical records for back then are obviously few and far between so it's between Oxford and some much less famous Univeristy in France (which currently hold the official record, the official record being a bit arbitrarily chosen here).
But otherwise I can see your point. There's tons of wonders to add, doesn't feel like Civ needs to artificially up the list with imagined ones associated with great people.
Except for the fact that it did not award degrees (as far as we know), the Mouseion at Alexandria, or "Great Library" would probably qualify (323 BCE) as the oldest 'university'. In addition to the famous library, it also included reading rooms, lecture halls, and live-in scholars supported by the government to study, teach and produce original research.
Another candidate for at least 'one of' the oldest would be the Nalanda Mahavihara (427 CE) in eastern India. While it was organized as a Buddhist monastery, it included a population of scholars teaching philosophy, grammar, medicine, logic, astronomy and mathematics - a pretty broad cirriculum!
A lesser case could be advanced for Plato's Akademia (387 BCE) or Aristotle's Lykeion (Lyceum) (334 BCE) outside Athens, both teaching centers and the latter including a library and zoological garden.
Point being that a Wonder with a scientific or 'secular learning' effect could be composed from any of several prototypes much earlier than the European Universitas model that started with Bologna.
Here are some ideas and what they might do (gameplay akin to 6 is assumed until we know more)
-Derinkuyu - City cannot be put under siege and prevents population loss from disasters; +2 housing
-Churches of Lalibela - must have founded a religion; outside religion spreading to your empire is -50% and religious units receive +5 strength inside your borders
-House of Wisdom
-Himeji Castle - grants an increase to city combat strength and units within the city borders; units killed within the borders provide a yield or bonus
-Crystal Palace
-Yuanmingyuan
-Apostolic Palace - allows you to propose the first of the 2 world congress resolutions
-United Nations - allows you to propose the second of the 2 world congress resolutions
-Ishtar Gate - city walls provide +2 culture and +3 faith
-Versailles - governors boost city production and gold by 3% per promotion
-Neuschwanstein - improved gold, production, and appeal to adjacent tiles
Regarding the university debate, the core of the problem is whether we define "university" narrowly or widely - the exact form of educational organisation we know today as "university" began evolving in medieval Europe, but there had been some differently structured organisations of higher education in other cultures.
Personally I would kinda prefer to use the name "university" for universities, and not graft it on medieval Islamic madrasa or Indian institutions, but idk perhaps the scholarly consensus points elsewhere.
Regarding the university debate, the core of the problem is whether we define "university" narrowly or widely - the exact form of educational organisation we know today as "university" began evolving in medieval Europe, but there had been some differently structured organisations of higher education in other cultures.
Personally I would kinda prefer to use the name "university" for universities, and not graft it on medieval Islamic madrasa or Indian institutions, but idk perhaps the scholarly consensus points elsewhere.
I believe (having been out of the scholarly mainstream for decades now) that 'University' is reserved for the Universitas structures of the European Medieval Era and afterwards, and so starts with the establishment of the Universitas of Bologna. As far as I've read lately, other institutions with similar effects, like Madrasas, are given their own terminology, sometimes with qualifiers, as for the Madrasas that included especially significant teaching and library functions.
My point is that there were other institutions, some lasting for centuries (about 5 centuries for the Mouseion, nearly 7 centuries for the Nalanda Mahivihara), that could be used in-game to give University-like bonuses and effects, and they shouldn't be neglected. Ideally, I would love to see a Cap or 'Capstone' Wonder for every Building or District, so that the Cap for Libraries might be the Alexandrian Mouseion, for the University Oxford or Cambridge, for a Market Istanbul's Buyuk Carsi, and so on. A Cap Wonder would replace the building in that city and give extra benefits related to but in addition to the original building it replaces. It has always bugged me that I have to build both a Library and the Great Library in the same city, or a Temple and one of the Temple Wonders side by side.
Right - and "continuous operation" was an unspoken qualifier I had on my two examples, above. Nalanda ended after a time. But if we expand "university" to "place dedicated to a wide range of study", we can get those institutions that were not built around the European system (otherwise, things get teleological). Nalanda is one of my favorites, aand IIRC I pushed for it in Civ6's Babylon pack.
I've gone back and chosen 8 wonders to put on my "wishlist" (in my signiture) and gave them bonuses based on how I would add them to Civ6 (as I would assume Civ7 will have different mechanics to make use of for these which we do not know of yet):
Uplistsikhe, Georgia (Basically Petra but Georgian, absolutely amazing) - Must be built on a hill/mountain, provides you housing and faith from mines or mountains.
Gardens by the Bay, Singapore - Must be built adajcent to coast, grants power to neighbouring cities equal to their excess food.
Vauxhall Cross, United Kingdom - Must be built next to the diplomatic quarter and adjacent to a river, grants bonus spies or a bonus towards offensive or defensive spies.
Palm Jumeirah, United Arab Emirates - Must be built on coast, grants the ability to build palm resort tile improvements on coast adjacent to land that provide +1 tourism for every adjacent coast tile, world wonder and natural wonder. Tile cannot be worked.
Ħaġar Qim/Mnajdra, Malta - Must be build adjacent to coast, all cities get housing as if they were settled on fresh water.
Masada, Israel - Must be built on a mountain, this tile becomes passable and acts as a defensable district with a ranged attack. The city in which Masada is built in cannot be taken whilst Masada has health. Masada cannot be put under seige if built next to a river.
Paradise (Las Vegas Strip) - Must be built on flat desert, provides tourism equal gold output of this city (acts positive and negative). Maintainance of all buildings in this city is doubled.
CERN, France & Switzerland - three tile world wonder, must be placed on the boarder of your and at least 1 other player's empire. Owners of at least 1 tile of CERN earn science equal to the Alliance Point accumilation of all owners of CERN tiles.
Of course, the best thing about all of these is that... I've been there~
Some super modern wonders would be very welcome, as they could make the late game less monotonous and still competitive. The Burj Al Arab could be a major tourism booster in the late game. A super modern museum, like the one in Bilbao, would be interesting. Marina Bay Sands could serve as a super casino in the endgame (I hope we have casinos as common buildings this time). We could also see the return of the Three Gorges Dam. And finally, a wonder related to natural research, like a super botanical garden.
In addition to those mentioned above, the return of the Sydney Opera House and the super stadium of Maracanã would form a good set of late-game wonders. However, this time, granting really powerful bonuses that make them viable to be built.
Some super modern wonders would be very welcome, as they could make the late game less monotonous and still competitive. The Burj Al Arab could be a major tourism booster in the late game. A super modern museum, like the one in Bilbao, would be interesting. Marina Bay Sands could serve as a super casino in the endgame (I hope we have casinos as common buildings this time). We could also see the return of the Three Gorges Dam. And finally, a wonder related to natural research, like a super botanical garden.
In addition to those mentioned above, the return of the Sydney Opera House and the super stadium of Maracanã would form a good set of late-game wonders. However, this time, granting really powerful bonuses that make them viable to be built.
Huh... I never knew there was a casino in the Marina Bay Sands... or at least I didn't see it or forgot about it on my visit. I was more amazed at the roof deck, infinity pool and the venetian canals inside it. But I think the Gardens By The Bay are more likely than the Marina Bay Sands; although I can see the MBS feature in the model of the hex behind the Supertrees and the greenhouses.
As for the Burj Khalifa; like my above comment, I think the Palm is more likely to be selected, and that the Burj Khalifa (and Burj Al Arab) might appear in the model of the Palm perhaps instead.
Grand Central Station Connects all existing tracks and Bus lines. Doubles the output of all Rail Factories. Doubles travel speed of all train and Bus lines. Produces free Rail Worker Unit.
Grand Central Station Connects all existing tracks and Bus lines. Doubles the output of all Rail Factories. Doubles travel speed of all train and Bus lines. Produces free Rail Worker Unit.
I don't know how to tell you this, but Civilization has never featured tracks (except railroads which are by nature connected), bus lines, rail factories or rail worker units.
I don't know how to tell you this, but Civilization has never featured tracks (except railroads which are by nature connected), bus lines, rail factories or rail worker units.
In Civ III these Railroads were laid by automated workers. In Civ VI they are laid down manually by Builder units. So maybe we can return to the idea of automated workers. And to expand the worker category. This can include Farm workers, Road. and in later eras Rail Workers. Each City can produce Rail Factories, Train Stations and Bus Depots. Grand Central Station could be a vital Wonder. In that it would greatly enhance the mobility of the population. Thus creating expanding opportunities. The more mobile the population, the more active they become. Also it would greatly increase happiness by way of improving Travel both within the Civilization and between other Civs.
I've gone back and chosen 8 wonders to put on my "wishlist" (in my signiture) and gave them bonuses based on how I would add them to Civ6 (as I would assume Civ7 will have different mechanics to make use of for these which we do not know of yet):
Uplistsikhe, Georgia (Basically Petra but Georgian, absolutely amazing) - Must be built on a hill/mountain, provides you housing and faith from mines or mountains.
Gardens by the Bay, Singapore - Must be built adajcent to coast, grants power to neighbouring cities equal to their excess food.
Vauxhall Cross, United Kingdom - Must be built next to the diplomatic quarter and adjacent to a river, grants bonus spies or a bonus towards offensive or defensive spies.
Palm Jumeirah, United Arab Emirates - Must be built on coast, grants the ability to build palm resort tile improvements on coast adjacent to land that provide +1 tourism for every adjacent coast tile, world wonder and natural wonder. Tile cannot be worked.
Ħaġar Qim/Mnajdra, Malta - Must be build adjacent to coast, all cities get housing as if they were settled on fresh water.
Masada, Israel - Must be built on a mountain, this tile becomes passable and acts as a defensable district with a ranged attack. The city in which Masada is built in cannot be taken whilst Masada has health. Masada cannot be put under seige if built next to a river.
Paradise (Las Vegas Strip) - Must be built on flat desert, provides tourism equal gold output of this city (acts positive and negative). Maintainance of all buildings in this city is doubled.
CERN, France & Switzerland - three tile world wonder, must be placed on the boarder of your and at least 1 other player's empire. Owners of at least 1 tile of CERN earn science equal to the Alliance Point accumilation of all owners of CERN tiles.
Of course, the best thing about all of these is that... I've been there~
Masada and CERN are awesome ideas. First for being really unique concept and second for being fantastic embodiment of the notion of "modern wonder of the world" and of the "practical" wonder. It could even be connected to the scientific victory in some convincing way (theory of everything, ya know).
Uplistsikhe is also great, I'm surprised I have never heard of it.
I have to admit, I am prejudiced against wonders of the world coming from UAE as I am in the camp "Dubai is a soulless vulgar parody of the 21st century" and I wouldn't give its megalomaniac consumerist projects the title of "wonder of the world".
I have to admit, I am prejudiced against wonders of the world coming from UAE as I am in the camp "Dubai is a soulless vulgar parody of the 21st century" and I wouldn't give its megalomaniac consumerist projects the title of "wonder of the world".
Yeah, commercial city state with tons of oil which offers amazing alliance rewards but you have to sacrifice something: penalty to culture, penalty to democratic ideology, or you have to send them workers who become their slaves workforce, or Dubai sometimes spawning religious fundamentalists in your lands, or sabotaging your climate change efforts...
But their city model will be unique and cool with moon ball buildings, walls of glass and stuff. Especially designed to stick out like thorn in the eye in Ancient Era - it won't even change, it will have Modern Era art whole game.
Regarding CERN, the specific wonder would be the Large Hadron Collider, CERN happens to be the lab the collider was attached to. Great idea for a late game science victory wonder though.
Regarding CERN, the specific wonder would be the Large Hadron Collider, CERN happens to be the lab the collider was attached to. Great idea for a late game science victory wonder though.
I think they would be fine using CERN, If it's aesthetically more pleasing than longer name. We also have Oracle (rather than Temple of Apollo or something).
EDIT: Or wait, is the building actually called Oracle? looks like it is
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![Andrew Johnson [FXS]](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/326/326908.jpg?1589646534){kind=avatar}
looks like it is
