What the heck happened?

[Mouthwash]

So I finally get writing. My myths obsolete. I open trade with everybody. But when I look, my science gets cut by 30%, WAY more than what the myths gave me, and so does my gold. Shouldn't the opposite be happening? Am I missing something here?

Save (a turn before): View attachment AutoSave_BC-3524.zip

 

[Nevets_]

If I remember, Writing obsoletes Elder Council, and a couple other buildings that give + or +%. It's partly alleviated by opening up Written Tradition civic. It's a fairly common problem in the game where buildings obsolete at the tech which gives you their replacements, so you lose out on the bonuses until you 'rebuild' the newer buildings.

The devs are working on tweaking all the buildings and techs constantly, and I think the oral -> written science drop is on their radar.

I think a good idea for the Myth buildings would be when you discover Writing they obsolete, but you get a free 'National Mythology' building(s) in your capital that gives you a small + and a large +, and you could modify these values up and down with future techs like they do with the University. I think you can use obsoleted buildings as building prereqs, so you could have multiple National Mythology buildings:
National Mythology (Predators) - Requires Myth of Cheetah or Bear or Lion or etc.
National Mythology (Grazers) - Requires Myth of Bull or Deer or Horse or etc.
These would also give poor hunting civs a bit of a leg up because they might be able to get most of the broad categories even if they only had 5 or 6 myths.

 

[Mouthwash]

What about the gold?

 

[LumenAngel]

Do you change your civics?
Writing enable 2 civics costing more money than previous civics

 

[Mouthwash]

No, I haven't changed any civics yet.

And anyway, I was gaining like +40 GPT before and -100 after. Too much for a civic change.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If I remember, Writing obsoletes Elder Council, and a couple other buildings that give + or +%. It's partly alleviated by opening up Written Tradition civic. It's a fairly common problem in the game where buildings obsolete at the tech which gives you their replacements, so you lose out on the bonuses until you 'rebuild' the newer buildings.

The devs are working on tweaking all the buildings and techs constantly, and I think the oral -> written science drop is on their radar.

I think a good idea for the Myth buildings would be when you discover Writing they obsolete, but you get a free 'National Mythology' building(s) in your capital that gives you a small + and a large +, and you could modify these values up and down with future techs like they do with the University. I think you can use obsoleted buildings as building prereqs, so you could have multiple National Mythology buildings:
National Mythology (Predators) - Requires Myth of Cheetah or Bear or Lion or etc.
National Mythology (Grazers) - Requires Myth of Bull or Deer or Horse or etc.
These would also give poor hunting civs a bit of a leg up because they might be able to get most of the broad categories even if they only had 5 or 6 myths.

Not all Myths "obsolete" (where we actually mean their boost obsoletes) with Writing any more. Some loose their bonus earlier and some later. Many have other benefits mostly in the area of reducing the cost of later buildings. I am thinking about extending and tidying up these buildings.

 

[Koshling]

So I finally get writing. My myths obsolete. I open trade with everybody. But when I look, my science gets cut by 30%, WAY more than what the myths gave me, and so does my gold. Shouldn't the opposite be happening? Am I missing something here?

Save (a turn before): View attachment 331382

The obsoletion paths for a lot of this sort of things changed a fair bit in V26 to have less of a cliff effect at certain techs (like writing). Is this game a V26 game or a V25 one?

 

[Mouthwash]

v25. The science losses might be explained by the loss of elder councils (losing a full 25% by itself) but not the gold losses, especially after I've just made free trade agreements with a whole bunch of Mediterranean and African Civs. Is there any game mechanic we're forgetting? Could inflation be causing this?

 

[Koshling]

v25. The science losses might be explained by the loss of elder councils (losing a full 25% by itself) but not the gold losses, especially after I've just made free trade agreements with a whole bunch of Mediterranean and African Civs. Is there any game mechanic we're forgetting? Could inflation be causing this?

Did the gold loss definitely happen at writing also, so could it have been enou tech close to there? The reason I ask is that stone tools workshop went obsolete at about the same time in v25 which has another 'cliff' effect. That was also addressed in v26

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

The crime building Forgery is enabled with the discovery of Writing, and it produces -7.5 for any city over 75 crime level. I've added columns to my City Advisor (F1) for Crime and change in Crime rate, and I discovered quite a few cities were over 75 crime.

It gets worse when you discover Currency, which introduces Counterfeiting for -10 at 100 crime level. That's about - 18 per city, which pays for a lot of Town Watchmen at -2 per turn.

From Sedentary Lifestyle I now research through to Masonry, then to Bronze Working (for horizontal expansion), and only then to Writing. At Masonry my military city starts pumping out Town Watchmen with as much Policing promotions as I can get and I try to get the crime down before discovering Writing. Try that research path and see if it helps. I also build lots of the negative crime, -1.5 buildings and I try to build them pretty early in the build queues. I am finding a lot of financial benefit to fighting crime aggressively.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@WTW,

Agree to everything you just said.

JosEPh

 

[Mouthwash]

The crime building Forgery is enabled with the discovery of Writing, and it produces -7.5 for any city over 75 crime level. I've added columns to my City Advisor (F1) for Crime and change in Crime rate, and I discovered quite a few cities were over 75 crime.

It gets worse when you discover Currency, which introduces Counterfeiting for -10 at 100 crime level. That's about - 18 per city, which pays for a lot of Town Watchmen at -2 per turn.

From Sedentary Lifestyle I now research through to Masonry, then to Bronze Working (for horizontal expansion), and only then to Writing. At Masonry my military city starts pumping out Town Watchmen with as much Policing promotions as I can get and I try to get the crime down before discovering Writing. Try that research path and see if it helps. I also build lots of the negative crime, -1.5 buildings and I try to build them pretty early in the build queues. I am finding a lot of financial benefit to fighting crime aggressively.

I knew there had to be something I'd forgotten.

 

[Taxman66]

Maybe these crimes are just a tad too severe for (relatively) low crime thresholds? Perhaps they should scale or better yet be based on a formula.

Possible example (or at least the framework) for monetary crime penalties:
If Crime > 0 Then
Crime * .1 * gross city production

Thus monetary penalties for crime would be more painfull in cash rich developed cities and less worriesome in less developed poor cities.


Going to copy this suggestion to the appropriate thread.

 

[Nimek]

Yes crime buildings should rise entire city support cost not only exact number of gold

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

I agree with Taxman & Nimek, could crime buildings be a percentage of lost rather than a fixed amount? There are other buildings (Shinto temple) that make percentage changes to so I think the mechanics are there.

 

[Taxman66]

As I implied in my formula, you can take it a step further and the worse the level of crime, the higher the penalty.