[BTS] What to do about big Civilizations? [Prince]

[SlimJim01]

Sorry, I forgot to update!
Played a lot yesterday and everything went well! I settled the spice city, which turned out to be a very good city (pop wise). Drafted some riflemen and wiped out the Americans, and I'm currently very ahead tech wise.
My current plan is to build the UN and then get artillery and then declare war on someone (probably Sitting Bull). The only problem is that the only person whose Friendly with me, is also my rival. So, diplomatic victory is probably out of the picture, but domination should do just fine.

Going axes/pults is more efficient as you head deeper into tech tree

Will try next time.

If you want to learn the game don't play low sea level till you are comfortable with basic mechanics and how to play at start

Really? Sea level matters that much? How come?

 

[Gumbolt]

My play through to 100bc and I was taking down the Americans with axes/pults. 4 cities left.

1785ad and you have finally taken them out. This map probably should of been conquered by 1500ad or before with most AI capitulated..

With that many cities you could be drafting an army of 50-100+ units over 20-30 turns. Add in police state and workshops and things get really powerful.

I didn't mean low sea level I meant large maps. Either way on both map typess the AI will eventually expand to 10+ cities. Even with a prince handicap the Ai will eventually somewhat catch up tech and expansion wise.

Maybe go UN and try to get 1-2 vassals and win the game.

 

[pigswill]

Had a quick go from starting save. Started AH>wheel. One city chariot rush v Monte, wiped out 1960bc. Then expanded slowly, wonder-spammed (Glite, Mom, Parth, Glib) and HA rushed America, killed 200ad..

 

[Gumbolt]

Yeah chariots or axes should of been enough for Aztecs. When you only face 2 defenders it makes life so much easier.

Up to 225ad. Americans on their final city and my troops wrong side of American's old empire. Not much of an army left. 8-9 units. I could take peace but I take 1 unhappiness with most Ai for a further DOW.

Finally got foreign trade routes and GLH. Which helps science hugely. Completed MM wonder too for 12 turn golden ages..

Building a few other wonders. Hanging Garden will be huge as I have 16 cities. Parth okay. 3 unhappiness in capital which is a bit annoying but up to size 14. One from WW. Will build a chariot to help but have 2-3 new happiness resources I can improve.

Finally met Mongols who are in war mode. Hopefully not me.

Think cuirs from here. AI is so backwards. Need music for G Art.

Prolly should be gifting AI resources for happiness. Even if one did attack me I could whip units anyway.

 

[Gumbolt]

Well you now have 2 good saves showing where science could of been at 200ad for you. Also showing AMricans could of been wiped out by 200ad. Albeit Pigswill/me have been playing this game at higher levels for years. You learn a few tricks like workers doing improvements between moves so you don't lose a turn. Switching tiles in cites. Overflows for whipping. Plus general build orders to help you beat immortal+.

425ad update.
Arrived at American's final city. Waited 2 turns as he had 2 roaming workers. He chopped out a settler. Guess he was already building it. I need the 3 workers so this is good news.
AI are advancing a bit. Was able to trade for wine and gems. Got 4-5 gold from trading resources.

Sittingbull up to 9 cities. Large map and too few AI so they just kill building cities. For this reason I am whipping settlers too. I have GLH so coastal cities are all good for the extra trade routes.

Will chop a wonder from Washington. Should have 4 more wonders in 7 turns. NE might be nice soon. Cities too small for golden age right now.
Capital size 16 and will get 2 more pop with HG wonder and growth. Size 18 is sweet. It is taking over the helper city a bit.

580ad Up to 45% of world pop now. HG built and plus 19 pop! Glib built. NE built in Washington. Teching nationalism. Size 18 capital. Nice!

Gonna pause for today as losing focus.Nearly got all the key resources now improved. Need to think about golden age timing. Or it will arrive too late. Might start that tomorrow if I have time. Need to stop SB before he builds too many more cities. If you just sat on 7 cities on this map the AI could easily have 14-20 cities. On a normal pangea map on standard size the Ai might have 6-10 cities. It does make larger maps more interesting. Albeit It's aout 1 level harder.

 

[pigswill]

Restarted the game, one city chariot rush v Monte again. delayed HbR for IW.maths, filled peninsula then HA rushed America (destroyed 375ad), Ottomans peace vassaled as soon as I got feudalism. I ground my way through SB, stubborn as usual, didn't cap until his last city and I lost 19 HA in the process (capped 760ad). No big deal as I was swopping to elepults, GK was easier and capped after three cities. Only built Glite and Colossus. Now 1010ad, two civs destroyed, three capped, three to go. Now building trebs and maces, maybe go for guilds for knights.

 

[Gumbolt]

Is chariot rushing the Aztecs really speeding things up here? You end up with one city more at 1960bc. Maybe a worker too. You delay BW and the double gold city? You missed out on oracle 150bc with marble too. The game is won but large maps and 1mp units are a pain. Time to split up stacks as Shaka only has 5 or so cities. If you get 10 combat wins in a row the AI should cap.

 

[pigswill]

Hard to say, I got double gold city by 1800bc, capital pop 6 working decent tiles to churn out settlers and workers, AI capital is always a decent city. Didn't know about 10 wins in a row but with trebs and mop up that's pretty easy to achieve. I had three stacks back in 1010 ad. Conquest victory 1260 ad. Missed out on Oracle because I forgot to go for it, if I had I'd probably have looked to Oracle feudalism.

 

[SlimJim01]

First of all, thank you guys so much for helping out! I'll definitely check out your saves when I can!

I managed to win a Diplomatic victory... by Vassalage-ing every Civ I could. After that the Ottomans declared war on me, and I slowly took their land until I had enough to win a Diplomatic victory.
I guess the lesson is: violence is a viable solution for every problem. Also, tactical nukes are very cool. Especially on submarines.
I do have a few questions though. First, are vassals always useless? When Ottomans attacked, I thought that I wouldn't have to worry about protecting them, since I purposefully gave them super advanced tech so they can help me out. But, they just.... did nothing? At the very least I thought they'll defend or retake their own cities, but nope! Juuuuust stood there.

Cities too small for golden age right now.

There's an optimal time to start a golden age?

Here's my final save, if someone wants it. I had a lot of fun with this run.
Once again, thanks!

 

[Gumbolt]

Congrats on the win.
You don't win civ 4 by being peaceful. Rarely works out well and on a map like this you would of been stuck on 5-6 cities.
Vassals can be useful. Sometimes nice for the AI to have someone else to attack. They can if strong enough attack other AI. They add 50% of their land value to yours. So taking multiple vassals speeds up your end date. You can request the AI attacks city x. Sometimes they need a push.


up to 1030ad. I burned a golden age turn after I posted. I ran scientists in 3 cities and got 4 great people. I bulbed edu/Lib once. Probably should of done paper too. Took MT from Lib. Bulbed PP but just using up a GS. Got a GM and used it for 1500 gold trade missions. Got me to feudalism a bit quicker.

To date i have 62 cuirs scattered on map.
Minute I got feudalism Ottoman empire vassalled. Not even at pleased.
Sitting Bull has been a pain but has capitulated after losing 5-6 cities.
GK just capitulated after losing 3 cities.
Shaka has 4 cities. Koreans 7 and HRE 11. HRE will be my next target and maybe Korea, Then Shaka. See how things pan out. Not currently at war with anyone. Crossing map takes a while. Prolly declare on HRE next turn as he is 7-8 turns from engineering.
No one bar me has feudalism.

So HRE capitulated after losing 2 cities.
1050ad - 2 AI left. Declared on both in case they have to wait x turns for peace. I doubt either have a stack above 6-7 units. Without pikes/mace they have no real reply to cuirs. Too few cities to do anything useful. Not even sure they have castles yet.
1060ad. Shaka left. Koeans capitulated after 1 city and 6-7 more units.

Shaka now has feudalism.Will take a while to get units near him to attack. Very frustrating. If I had known they would all cap so quickly I would of sent more towards Shaka.

1100ad all done. Cuirs so much quicker than 1mp units.

 

[Gumbolt]

Overall you could in theory have finished by 1100ad or sooner. If i had sent more units to Shaka he would of gone 2 or so turns quicker

If you want to improve put up a new game but play 9-10 turns a go and take advice. At 1955ad you should of had stacks of 50-60+ units. I had 60 cuirs by 1030ad.

Your late game needs some work but better to get the basics right.

 

[CGQ]

Ah, so it is.
In that case, I'll restart, rather than start a new game (bit cheaty).

Do you have the non-buffy version? I can't get the save or mod to load on mine

 

[Gumbolt]

Do you have the non-buffy version? I can't get the save or mod to load on mine

CivFanatics - Civilization IV Hall of Fame

3.19 005