what to do w/ 1st Great Spy?

[crazyunits]

settle it, build scottland yard, infiltrate an enemy or start a golden age?

 

[Cam_H]

Could be any of the above, and depends upon your strategy (specialist, espionage, etc...).

If it's spawned from The Great Wall in the Classical Era or thereabouts, I tend to infiltrate to pick up all of those cheap technologies that get by-passed while I'm bee-lining. Later Great Spies usually get settled, unless I'm in the middle of a Space Race in which case a Golden Age.

Quick answer for what could otherwise be a very lengthy one!

 

[Elkad]

If you intend to run an espionage economy, settle the first, build Scotland Yard with the 2nd.

 

[crazyunits]

so i've infiltrated one of my advanced neighbors but i still couldn't steal tech from him? WTH?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oh, wow. That's Cam_H and this isn't a thread necro . Good to see you back! The Churchill game was one of my favorites as a rookie.

@ OP: it depends. If you really want a full EP route and will get more spies, settling is an option. However, if you intend to send the slider up early in the game, cottages + SY can be very, very effective, unmatched by commerce ----> research until lib + academy + university. You may even want multiple SY if you have multiple good commerce sites. This can be incredibly difficult on the AI...it's doubtful it will adjust on most levels, which means if you take care of basic expansion and have a good production base you are @ tech parity forever.

 

[AlienSexFilth]

No matter the economy I plan to run, I always settle the first GSpy if he comes from the GW. The early espionage points will show you what the rival Civs are teching to (which is priceless) and net you enough EPs to revolt their cities if you decide to attack pre-catas.

 

[Shurdus]

No matter the economy I plan to run, I always settle the first GSpy if he comes from the GW. The early espionage points will show you what the rival Civs are teching to (which is priceless) and net you enough EPs to revolt their cities if you decide to attack pre-catas.

+1.

Later on I find that settling the great spy is not worth it usually. I dislike focussing on espionage because you may be able to steal techs but it will not get you ahead. Even though espionage may be a more cost efficient way of grabbing techs I still will not do it because of the drawbacks. The first one can be settled and that is all good and all, later ones go into a golden age with me.

 

[Sisiutil]

so i've infiltrated one of my advanced neighbors but i still couldn't steal tech from him? WTH?

I assume you have (a) researched or traded for Alphabet and (b) sent a spy into one of his cities?

Send more than one spy and leave them stationary in the city for at least five turns for a 50% espionage point discount. (More than one because there's a chance the spy might get caught and vanish before five turns are up.)

Shardus--I prefer to settle late GSpies and/or build Scotland Yard with them. I rarely focus on espionage in the early game, but by mid to late game, I like to have demographics on everyone and also know what they're researching. Settled GSpies and SY can help me get there without having to adjust the slider.

 

[Greek Plunder]

I always infiltrate the most advanced neighbor with a strong economy. Stealing techs allows me so many more options. I consider it almost game breaking at times. Keep in mind, this is best done early, before the techs become too expensive and they've built up large amounts of EP.

 

[Gooblah]

I like to infiltrate a Protective neighbor who's also a strong techer if one exists - for example, Huayna Capac, Wang Kon, and (depending on the size of his empire) Sitting Bull. I won't declare war on them for a while due to their defensive bonuses, so I just like to chill out and steal techs from them. Eventually, when I'm strong enough, I'll just use the extra espionage to start city revolts and destroy their empire.

Else, I'll just settle the first, build Scotland yard with the second.

 

[Matthew5117]

If you intend to run an espionage economy, settle the first, build Scotland Yard with the 2nd.

Actaully, if your going to do this, settle the first two because that way the second settled GS can give 3 beakers as opposed to the Scotland Yard which gives just as many EPs (think it this way: 12+12 with 2 settled GS or 12x2 with 1 settled GS and Scotland Yard while giving 3 beakers to the 2 settled GS)

 

[§L¥ Gµ¥]

I usually use the first GS to explore the map, if it's a result of building the great wall. It's a free, essentially invincible scout that ignores cultural borders. After exploring the entire continent, I'll usually infiltrate the quickest teching neighbor and steal techs to make up for my CoL beeline.

Otherwise, I'll use them to infiltrate if there's one or two techs I really want, or use them to spark golden ages.

 

[Nurgle84]

I would say, if you want to run the science slider build a scotland yard. The 100% bonus is huge in that case. If you just want run a bit of espionage to support your research, settle him. I do not like to infiltrate him you lose on EPs in the long run and you lose the beakers. Scouting with him is an option I never tested yet, but I will as I am a big fan of espionage.

 

[ReyLuis]

No matter the economy I plan to run, I always settle the first GSpy if he comes from the GW. The early espionage points will show you what the rival Civs are teching to (which is priceless) and net you enough EPs to revolt their cities if you decide to attack pre-catas.

Indeed - seeing what your rivals are teching early on is a massive help. Sometimes though I will infiltrate my 1st Great Spy just to make sure I have enough points for Support City Revolt'

 

[ReyLuis]

I would say, if you want to run the science slider build a scotland yard. The 100% bonus is huge in that case. If you just want run a bit of espionage to support your research, settle him. I do not like to infiltrate him you lose on EPs in the long run and you lose the beakers. Scouting with him is an option I never tested yet, but I will as I am a big fan of espionage.

I was never a massive fan of Espionage, but once I discovered how powerful it can be (especially at the higher levels) I also became a huge, huge fan

 

[Dr.Null]

Actaully, if your going to do this, settle the first two because that way the second settled GS can give 3 beakers as opposed to the Scotland Yard which gives just as many EPs (think it this way: 12+12 with 2 settled GS or 12x2 with 1 settled GS and Scotland Yard while giving 3 beakers to the 2 settled GS)

Remember that the palace gives 4 so your first settled GSpy in your cap pushes that up to 16 , and building Scotland Yards doubles that 16 (not just the 12).

So, settled + SY = (12+4)*2 = 32 , settled x2 = (12*2) + 4 = 28 .

SY also doubles the EP from your courthouse.

 

[krikav]

Building Scotland Yard instead of settling the great spy, seems like a no-brainer for me.
The potential of having +100% espionage points in that city is huge.

Especially if it is in the palace, where you will only get 16/turn, instead of 20/turn (and there was some minor ammount of beakers to, iirc), and this is a very marginal differance.

Building SY is flexible, whereas setteling the great spy more or less commits you to playing a game without espionage at all.

 

[coanda]

It's tough generating GSpies reliably, because you don't get many specialist slots until Constitution. So Scotland Yard makes sense as a play when you're planning a multi-city, slider-based, game-long espionage economy. Your first GSpy makes a Scotland Yard in your capital; your second, third, etc. GSpies all make Scotland Yards in other commerce cities. If/when you generate a GS instead of a GSpy, you can use him to bulb something useful. With luck you'll get at least 2 GSpies before Constitution, and several after that.

An infiltrate mission will give you a huge boost. Particularly if you captured a holy city, you can with a little luck steal your way into the Renaissance at 0% research off the one GSpy (just stealing techs and trading them around), plus a few Great Scientist bulbs. However, it will encourage the AIs to spend more heavily on espionage (which makes later-game espionage costs higher), could easily sour your diplo., and will require a fair number of hammers building spies. It's a reasonable play when you have a high-production, low-commerce, low-food start with several neighbors and are trying to keep up in tech while REXing aggressively or rushing.

Settling a GSpy will give you 12 EPs per turn, plus 3 bpt (6 with Representation if you're that lucky). It gives you the biggest immediate boost to EP per turn, which makes it the most useful for keeping a short-term eye on other civs tech patterns and giving you flexibility in who you steal from early on. It's a good play if you're planning on mixing some modest espionage in with an otherwise normal game.

Golden Age is the obvious choice if you have no use for espionage (maybe you're isolated, or maybe your game plan doesn't have the spare hammers for spies or you can't afford the potential diplo. hit, or maybe you just don't like espionage). It's also useful if you just got a good GP farm or two up and ready and you really wanted a GS, not a GSpy - start a golden age and try to generate your next couple GP really quickly.

 

[6K Man]

Remember that the palace gives 8 so your first settled GSpy in your cap pushes that up to 20 , and building Scotland Yards doubles that 20 (not just the 12).

So, settled + SY = 40 , settled x2 = 24 + 8 = 32 .

SY also doubles the EP from your courthouse.

The Palace is worth 4 , not 8. So building SY with your first GSpy produces an additional 4 only, which is not great, unless you plan to use the espionage slider... a rare state of affairs for me.


So, unless I plan on infiltrating somebody, the first GSpy is settled. The extra beakers can come in handy, too.

 

[Keilah]

Build Scotland Yard with the first or the second Gspy, no later. By the time you've produced 2, you'll be turning on the espionage slider. It's hard to get great spy points in the early game and it will take FOREVER to get gspy #3.

I personally prefer to settle the first and build SY with the second.