What to do with 20 river tiles?

[misterfilmgeek]

Attached is a SS of a start I just generated as Kublai on Emperor (I'm still not good on Emperor, but solid at Monarch). I moved the scout from 1E to see if settling W would be beneficial. As you can see, there are 20(!) river tiles plus an Oasis (the tile 2E1N is river because the tile south of there has a bend). So first question is: Is it painfully obvious that I should settle in place? I like 1 SW too to get the extra tree to chop but I may not need the Corn for a while and I would lose 4 river tiles.

Next, what should the general strategy be here? I'm not familiar with Kublai at all (seems like warmongering all the way though) so I don't know how to leverage this first city - for production, commerce, or food because it could do any of those three pretty well. I know it depends on my next couple of cities, but at size 5 with copper should I find a close neighbor and Axe rush with my 10 base hammers (farmed FP, cottaged FP, 3 from gold, 4 from plains hill, 3 from grass hill)? With this commerce, I could easily support a decent army with two cities.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Tristan_C]

Seriously, the starts some people post. That game's already won dude.




Edit: thought I should post something constructive too. It's a good start with a medium amount of food, it's going to be a bureacracy capital. Avoid whipping in there much and go steady instead, wracking up the BPT. I'd definitely try to steal a worker from the first civ you find.

 

[TCMIV]

Seriously, the starts some people post. That game's already won dude.

Just because of 20 riverside tiles? Looks like a slow start with 0 visible food resources.

 

[Balnor]

I'd just settle in place. You haven't revealed your BFC food resource yet, though I guess it can only be on plains so not gonna be a big one (cow,deer or sheep). You still got decent food from all the floodplains + oasis though so it should be a great bureau commerce capital. May have to farm a couple floodplains to get going but after that pretty much cottage spam all the way I'd say.
That would also allow for a decent early production city down south with the corn and all those hills (possibly even some seafood)

Tech Agri, AH, Mining to start with and have fun

Whether you should rush or not will obviously depend on the distance to your neighbors, but with the gold already in hand you can easily just afford to REX till there is free land no more!

 

[michmbk]

1 SW is ok, settle in place is ok. You'll probably hear arguments for both. Like the previous poster said, this is a strong start. I'm assuming some food is reasonably likely to pop in the fog, so I'd probably go settle in place, cottage like crazy.

If I'm remembering right, my usual mongol tech path is AG, AH, mining, hopefully find horses, pottery, HBR, archery, BW. If you don't have food, maybe skipping AG. settler to claim the (hopefully) horse, barracks & gers in place before the keshik builds start.

Whatever civ is closest is dead once you have 7-8 keshiks built (maybe 10 keshiks if it's a nut like shaka).

Looks like a strong bureau capital that'll be a major power point for your economy.

EDIT: I've never been very good at predicting this - someone like obsolete or TMIT probably could, but doesn't 1SW look like it could be hiding horses? Also, how about the 4000 BC save? I'm not playing much lately, but I try to get a game in here & there.

 

[Tristan_C]

No, judging just by the revealed tiles, I'd say a rush of any kind would be sub-optimal. He's not getting any whip support-- just a ton of extra research.

And for hidden predictions: I'd be more inclined to say that metals are hiding in at least one of the south hills; otherwise this really is an unusual piece of land.

 

[whats a navy]

I would say that you don't need to lean towards a military conquest. With a cap that is perfect for cottage spamming and can't contribute to the war effort via the whip or production it isn't worth it. There may be some amazing land around though that would be perfect for this but looking at the cap it will probably be peaceful cottage spamming and teching. I wouldn't shy away from a renaissance war with a tech lead though.

 

[Wreck]

There is guaranteed to be at least one food resource in your startsite. So, there is something out there in the fog... pigs or corn is what the algorithm would add, but it might have a wheat tile or whatever naturally.

I'd settle in place. This is going to be a huge cottage bureaucracy capital cranking out the research. However, you don't need that initially, beyond working that gold. You want hammers. So settle a bunch of close-by helper cities with overlap to help get the cottages up. I can already see a decent city site to the SW (corn, some floodplain overlap). There's pretty sure to be one NE too, what with that river in the desert.

 

[misterfilmgeek]

Thanks for all of the advice. I guess the consensus is to settle in place and build a tech lead. If someone is really close, I'll rush with horses. I didn't know that a food resource was guaranteed in the BFC (still learning after four years!), so I'll likely get something on the northern plains tile.

Also, how about the 4000 BC save? I'm not playing much lately, but I try to get a game in here & there.

Attached, but you'll probably want to change "Your Details". I use a descriptive naming system that you may not like on your save games. I think the save is pre-Scout move too. If anyone plays it post results, or at least a 1 AD or so update, here (with the Spoiler tag!) please.

 

[mariogreymist]

Seriously, the starts some people post. That game's already won dude.

That comment proves you to be a snob, and semi literate. Interesting combo. Why is it that people make these comments? You or I (as solid emperor + players) may be able to walk away with an emperor level game with a start like that, but someone who says "I'm still not good on Emperor, but solid at Monarch" is hoping for a gift start to play when generating an emperor map. Most of us would rather play a good than a bad starting position, and almost everyone first beats a level with a solid starting location.

Just because you prefer your starts with a bunch of forested plains and one cow doesn't mean that everyone else wants to play a game like that. Won already...indeed. There are a million ways to screw up any game over prince level, regardless of how good the starting position.

But if it makes you feel superior, then keep up the good work.

 

[Pithdog]

Played about 230 turns, here's what happened thus far:

Spoiler :

Ok. Went early for a Keshik spam, but had no horses! So I traded my only copper and stone (at the time) for horses, builts Ger's and spammed away!

I hit the byzantines next to me hard, and throughout the war he was still founding cities behind the war front, which I then conquered or razed.

Thought I ran into a bit of trouble when he had 3 cities left, 1 of them heavily fortified, and he gained the knowledge to build longbowmen..... But nonetheless, his last city fell on the 230th turn, and here's a 230 turn screeny:

As you can see, I have 12 cities, equal to only one other civ. But my economy is down the toilet, so I'll spend the next 100+ turns building up infrastructure, ect ect.

 

[sakhmet]

I must be going blind, I can't see any SS. - Hmm!?!?! Is this an April fools!?

My first emperor win was actually with Kublai Kahn. Like you I would def have gone with a Keshik-war. I simply can't win otherwise with this guy on emperor.

Any civs around you? And did you snatch a religion?

 

[Sleepless]

There is guaranteed to be at least one food resource in your startsite. So, there is something out there in the fog... pigs or corn is what the algorithm would add, but it might have a wheat tile or whatever naturally.

Not sure if this is true or a bug with earlier versions but the one and only post I have started was a Monty Monarch game with 20 river grassland tiles incl 3 hills. All forested and no resources food or strategic what so ever.

edit just went back and looked at the original post from Aug 2008 and the general opinion was that it was a bug to d o with all the tiles being forested in the first place.

 

[misterfilmgeek]

Not sure if this is true or a bug with earlier versions but the one and only post I have started was a Monty Monarch game with 20 river grassland tiles incl 3 hills. All forested and no resources food or strategic what so ever.

edit just went back and looked at the original post from Aug 2008 and the general opinion was that it was a bug to d o with all the tiles being forested in the first place.

That may also have to do with map type. This was a Random Script map, which may make a start like this more likely.

 

[misterfilmgeek]

Did anyone else play this game? I'd love to see a SS of city placement if nothing else.

 

[DampRain]

Hi misterfilmgeek,

I am late to the party, but having a leader doesn't mean you should drastically change your play style. Eg. if you didn't intend on rushing normally you'd cottage in such a situation, if you intended to rush (as you did) then using it for production also goes well. Traits, etc. only tip the scales in a particular direction, not install a completely new set .

SIP seems a very good choice.

 

[Killroyan]

What to do with 20 river tiles? Build a levee
(nice start anyway)

 

[yanner39]

There is guaranteed to be at least one food resource in your startsite. So, there is something out there in the fog... pigs or corn is what the algorithm would add, but it might have a wheat tile or whatever naturally.

I'd settle in place. This is going to be a huge cottage bureaucracy capital cranking out the research. However, you don't need that initially, beyond working that gold. You want hammers. So settle a bunch of close-by helper cities with overlap to help get the cottages up. I can already see a decent city site to the SW (corn, some floodplain overlap). There's pretty sure to be one NE too, what with that river in the desert.

This is a good tip. If I would have rolled this start, I would have moved my settler to get the corn at least and that would have been non-irrigated corn. I would never consider the fact that at least one food has to be in the start site, hence in the fog.

 

[Fluroscent]

How can you even consider NOT settling with the corn in the BFC?
Either go SW or settle on the PH. PH may be better to maximise land usage later, and a quicker start. But poorer capital in the long run.

Guaranteed food? Have we not seen enough examples of this being false yet?
And even if it were true, what if it is just a plains cow? You'd be stuck with 3F tiles unless you farm floodplains. That is a below average start in my book.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

How can you even consider NOT settling with the corn in the BFC?
Either go SW or settle on the PH. PH may be better to maximise land usage later, and a quicker start. But poorer capital in the long run.

Guaranteed food? Have we not seen enough examples of this being false yet?
And even if it were true, what if it is just a plains cow? You'd be stuck with 3F tiles unless you farm floodplains. That is a below average start in my book.

In default scripts, the game needs to put at least one food resource and 1 3f or more tile in the BFC. We see the floodplains/oasis, which means it won't add food past one resource. A little fog peaking tells us that our "food" is virtually guaranteed to be a plains cow or wheat (we actually won't mind in place if it is wheat since freshwater wheat is 5F and better than dry corn by 1H 1C).

IMO SW or on the plains hill to get corn are safer bets, but one can get away with in place also with the # of flood plains. Early cottages can help bankroll a hard push for HBR anyway.