What Type?

And by 1919 Finland is at war with Soviet-Russia, that was ended in 1920 at the peace of Tartto, wich gave Finland access to the Artic Sea and the Nickel rich mining area of Petsamo in Lapland. That area was lost to the Soviet Union in the peace of Paris 1947 as a punishment for Finland siding with the Axis along side with Finnish Karelia taken from Finland.
 
Nah. Kolchak's base was in Ufa, and that was separate from the main White army in Crimea/southern Ukraine/Novorossia.
 
And by 1919 Finland is at war with Soviet-Russia, that was ended in 1920 at the peace of Tartto, wich gave Finland access to the Artic Sea and the Nickel rich mining area of Petsamo in Lapland. That area was lost to the Soviet Union in the peace of Paris 1947 as a punishment for Finland siding with the Axis along side with Finnish Karelia taken from Finland.

Its safe to assume that all parts of the former Russian Empire were, as of 1919, at war with all other parts. ;) A possible exception is the three-four White Movements that were formally allied.
 
Reno said:
And by 1919 Finland is at war with Soviet-Russia, that was ended in 1920 at the peace of Tartto, wich gave Finland access to the Artic Sea and the Nickel rich mining area of Petsamo in Lapland. That area was lost to the Soviet Union in the peace of Paris 1947 as a punishment for Finland siding with the Axis along side with Finnish Karelia taken from Finland.
There was not exactly a true war going on between Finns and Soviets in 1919. Soviet Union had aknowledged Finland's independence over a year earlier. Then they had supported the communists in the 1918 civil war, but the fighting did not continue after that.

The reason why Finland had not signed peace with Soviet Russia was because there was a civil war going on in Russia:

Signing peace with Soviets would have been the same as scknowledging the Soviets as rightful rules of Russia, and what would have happened if the Whites had won the Russian civil war? Peace was signed between Finland and Soviet Union as soon as the outcome of their civil war was clear.

There was the trip to Aunus, yes, but that was organized by smaller nationalist factions, not by the government of Finland. The fighting with Russia basically ended in may of 1918.
 
Reno said:
Finland was actually much less part of the Russian Empire then say Poland, we had our own Autonomus Republic. ;)
Didn't Poland have autonomy too..? That's what I have always thought.
 
Are you sure it was a *republic*? ;) It was more of a Grand Duchy from what I remember...

Nonetheless, the rule still applies.
 
Poland was autonomous until 1830 Rebellion. For some odd reason Nicholas I didn't like the institution that declared him an usurper and ousted him from the Polish throne... ;)
 
There was the trip to Aunus, yes, but that was organized by smaller nationalist factions, not by the government of Finland.

But the peace of Tartto was signed by the Finnish government. True Eastern-Karelian conquest attempt was not tried by Finland but by it's citizens. Although Mannerheim supported the war.

Are you sure it was a *republic*? It was more of a Grand Duchy from what I remember...

Sure, it was a Grand Duchy, but with it's own law's vastly different from the rest of Russia. And we had our own Senate. Hence a Republic.

For some odd reason Nicholas I didn't like the institution that declared him an usurper and ousted him from the Polish throne...

Somehow i don't blame the Poles for doing that. :mischief: As the saying goes "Where ever there has been fighting in Europe the Polish have always lost." (Missä ikinä on Euroopassa taisteltukin Puolalaiset ovat aina hävinneet.)
 
Reno said:
But the peace of Tartto was signed by the Finnish government. True Eastern-Karelian conquest attempt was not tried by Finland but by it's citizens. Although Mannerheim supported the war.
They did not sign it to end a war; they signed it to recognize Soviet Russia, since there was not an existing peace treaty with the nations. Finnish citizen (volunteers, not army soldiers) were fighting on Russian soil to liberate Karelians, yes, but Finland as a country was not in a war with Soviet Russia even though they did not have a peace treaty. I cannot emphasize this enough: the reason why this peace treaty did not exist between the countries of Finland and Soviet Russia was because Soviet Russia did not exist as a country, not because there would have been a war going on.

Mannerheim supported Finns fighting in Karelia to liberate them, but he did it as a citizen of Finland, not as the head of state which he was until 1919.

Sure, it was a Grand Duchy, but with it's own law's vastly different from the rest of Russia. And we had our own Senate. Hence a Republic.
Russia also had their duma, it did not make them a Republic.

Finns did see their nation apart from Russian. Russia was led by their government, and Czar was the leader of it, while Finland was led by their government apart from the Russian one, and the Grand Prince (or Grand Duke or whatever it would be) was the leader of the Finnish government. It was just a coincidence that Russian Czar and Finnish Grand Prince happened to be the same person. It still didn't mean that the Russian government would have anything to say to issues of Finland. Only the Grand Prince (i.e. the Czar did).

That's how it was seen in Finland. Finns tried to point out the Czar as the ultimate ruler because then Russian government had less influence on Finns.

Therefore, we cannot consider Finland to be a republic. True, we had our own senate (altough the Czar and the General Gouvernor were the main characters who appointed it, for example the "saber senate" of 1916 consisting ONLY of Russian admirals and marshals). We also had our own one-chambered parliament since 1906, and everyone were allowed to vote - even the women!

But what use is a parliament, when the Czar has the right to abandon every law it makes, and to dissolve the parliament whenever he wants to?

This brings us to question..

WHAT IS A REPUBLIC?

I'd say that in modernday world, most people would consider Republic to be a government in which the PEOPLE of the nation have the highest power (which is used by representives, i.e. MP's, who the people chooce). A parliament did exist in Finland but it did not have the highest power until november 15th 1917. Therefore, Finland was not a true republic until then, altough it was more liberal in it's constitution than Russia. Finland was a monarchy, with the monarch being the highest executive and the highest legaslative force in the nation.
 
Okay, updated stats. Again, open to criticism and suggestions. (these stats are assuming that Versailles has been signed and in effect)

Bolsheviks
Ruler: Vladimir Lenin
Government: Communism
Capital: Moscow
Economy: Stable (10/9/0/0)
Industry: 35
Stability: Normal
Culture: Patriotic
Confidence: Admiring
Education: Tolerable
Army: 600,000 infantry (Inexperienced)
Navy: 6 destroyers, 4 cruisers (Green)
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes: Currently at war with the various White Russian factions.

White Russians
Ruler: Aleksandr Kolchak
Government: Military junta
Capital: None
Economy: Recession (8/7/0/0)
Industry: 20
Stability: Unstable
Culture: Strongly Cultured
Confidence: Respecting
Education: Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes: Basically a loose alliance of various anti-Bolshevik factions.

Weimar Republic
Ruler: Chancellor Friedrich Ebert
Government: Republic
Capital: Berlin
Economy: Severe Depression (6/5/0/15)
Industry: 50
Stability: Unstable
Culture: Hyperpatriotic
Confidence: Barely Tolerating
Education: Well Educated
Army: 100,000 infantry (Trained)
Navy: 6 battleships, 6 cruisers, 12 destroyers (Tolerable)
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes: According to the Treaty of Versailles, Germany's military may not grow beyond the above listed numbers. They also have a huge debt in reperations to pay to the former Allied nations.

Spain
Ruler: King Alfonso XIII
Government: Monarchy
Capital: Madrid
Economy: Stable (10/9/0/0)
Industry: 55
Stability: Unstable
Culture: Average
Confidence: Resentful
Education: Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

France
Ruler: Georges Clemenceau
Government: Republic
Capital: Paris
Economy: Failing (9/8/0/0)
Industry: 65
Stability: Normal
Culture: Patriotic
Confidence: Tolerating
Education: Well Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

UK
Ruler: Prime Minister David Lloyd George
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Capital: London
Economy: Failing (9/8/0/0)
Industry: 70
Stability: Normal
Culture: Hyperpatriotic
Confidence: Respecting
Education: Well Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes::

Canada
Ruler: Prime Minister Robert Laird Borden
Government: Republic
Capital: Ottawa
Economy: Failing (9/8/0/0)
Industry: 55
Stability: Above Normal
Culture: Strongly Cultured
Confidence: Admiring
Education: Well Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

USA
Ruler: President Woodrow Wilson
Government: Republic
Capital: Washington, D.C.
Economy: Growing (13/12/0/0)
Industry: 80
Stability: Above Normal
Culture: Hyperpatriotic
Confidence: Respecting
Education: Well Educated
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Note
 
i don't think the Bolsheviks should have a higher economy then France or England same with Spain, maybe the economy of france and england should be increased? or u could decrease the bolsheviks and spanish
 
It was right after WWI, and the economies of those countries were in fairly bad shape after the war. However, you have a point. I did the Bolshevik and Spanish stats earlier today, and forgot to update them as I was working right now.
 
WarlordMatt said:
It was right after WWI, and the economies of those countries were in fairly bad shape after the war. However, you have a point. I did the Bolshevik and Spanish stats earlier today, and forgot to update them as I was working right now.

that does mean ur going to change them right? :confused:
 
Don't forget the epidemic that swept through america and spain... surely that must've done something to their economy
 
'tis the legacy of Goober.

Warlord, IMHO you should a) divide the Whites into Kolchak's and Denikin's, due to the nearly-complete lack of cooperation (that was the primary reason of White defeat in OTL) and b) add the Semenov Clique. Or better yet, Military Buddhists, though they only appeared in 1920 as a completely separate group.
 
Who was crazy enough to be properly played by me? :D
 
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