What will be the remaining civs in Brave New World?

[Morningcalm]

Yeah, but what would the name of said Timurid UU be? Like a poster above pointed out, even "Naresuan's Elephant" is an odd title for a UU...

 

[cybrxkhan]

Yeah, but what would the name of said Timurid UU be? Like a poster above pointed out, even "Naresuan's Elephant" is an odd title for a UU...

Turcoman Cavalry? Nomad Cavalry? Timurid Cavalry? Timurid Warrior? etc.

There's plenty of silly name possibilities. If we got something as ridiculous as "Naresuan's Elephant", I'm pretty sure they can come up with something for a Timurid UU.

 

[steveg700]

It'd be hard to find unique units for Indonesia, too. A Timurid UU will likely be a mounted one, though, that much is likely. Though I don't think whether being able to figure out a UU is much a deciding factor - there's been plenty of odd choices for UU names, such as Siam's "Naresuan's Elephant" (which is as eloquent as "Washington's Musketmen" instead of Minutemen or "Genghis Khan's Cavalry" instead of "Keshik").

Finding UU for the Timurids is quite easy ihmo. The Timurids can have a knight replacement, a war elephant or a crossbow replacement. The Timurids used a lot of heavy cavalry, foot archer and later war elephants captured in Dehli, it's not hard to find a UU for them.

It's a lot harder finding something unique for Indonesia.

I got Majapahit covered. It's right there in the sig.

Did Timurid as well. Rather fond of the UA, but had to vamp on the UU. From what I can tell, his units weren't very unique, and certainly weren't called anything unique. Why couldn't he have come up with something catchy to compete with "Golden Horde"?

Main argument to avoid another knight unit is overlap with Mongols.

And having an elephant unit that cribs another civ's unique elephant unit...Must I continue?

 

[Morningcalm]

Yeah, but the Timurid dynasty hardly had recognizable UUs. The Huns with their horse archers and battering rams barely squeak by, and coming up with a Timurid cavalry unit named "Timurid Elephant" would be like saying "Egyptian chariot" or "Korean ship"...."Turcoman" holds more promise though.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Yeah, but the Timurid dynasty hardly had recognizable UUs. The Huns with their horse archers and battering rams barely squeak by, and coming up with a Timurid cavalry unit named "Timurid Elephant" would be like saying "Egyptian chariot" or "Korean ship"...."Turcoman" holds more promise though.

As said previously, we have Naresuan's Elephant.

Another good in-game example would be the "Babylonian Bowman" UU for Babylon. That's a funky name, but both that and Naresuan's Elephant proves that the devs are willing to come up with anything so long as it sort of works. Yes, I agree it's absolutely ridiculous, but it shows that the devs can and will do it if necessary (or if they feel like it).

As such, I don't think UU name - or even the existence of a UU (because they'll make something up if there's no recognizable historical military unit) - is an important factor in whether a civ will or will not be in.

 

[steveg700]

Another good in-game example would be the "Babylonian Bowman" UU for Babylon. That's a funky name, but both that and Naresuan's Elephant proves that the devs are willing to come up with anything so long as it sort of works. Yes, I agree it's absolutely ridiculous, but it shows that the devs can and will do it if necessary (or if they feel like it).

I think the battering ram and siege tower UU's pretty much take the cake. That's not just making stuff up, that's taking a ubiquitous unit and labeling them unique.

As such, I don't think UU name - or even the existence of a UU (because they'll make something up if there's no recognizable historical military unit) - is an important factor in whether a civ will or will not be in.

True. I primarily asked in the hopes of finding something I could use to refurbish my concept.

 

[ferretbacon]

At least the Assyrians were pioneers in siege towers. The Hun battering ram is definitely ridiculous. Honestly, I think the battering ram ought to be available to everyone (the city attack bonus scaled down, of course). The Assyrian Siege Tower should really be replacing that, not a catapult.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Move camel archers to Timurids and give Arabia the saracens or ansar knights = done !

 

[Morningcalm]

Right, but I'd think Firaxis would like to keep such UUs to a minimum (Naresuan's Elephant is better than "Bowman" or "Horse Archer"). Furthermore, the Timurids were an empire, but an incredibly short-lived one, and basically acted and organized like rich Huns (and collapsed just as quickly). I just think there would be other more deserving civs to include, even the Holy Roman Empire (who actually have a named UU, the Scaria cavalry).

 

[ShahJahanII]

Move camel archers to Timurids and give Arabia the saracens or ansar knights = done !

While that is a good solution if someone were to say, mod the Timurids into the game, it seems unlikely that Firaxis would actually change the units of civs already in the game.

 

[ferretbacon]

I'm partial to my HRE idea in my sig, though it might operate differently with the new systems coming up.

 

[Dragonflow]

Yeah, but what would the name of said Timurid UU be? Like a poster above pointed out, even "Naresuan's Elephant" is an odd title for a UU...

Samarkand Lancers, Transoxanian Cavalry, Dehli Elephants, Persian Archers, Barlas Horsemen, Uzbek Warriors etc.
It's not hard finding a name for a military unit from such a big empire.
Considering we have such brilliant named UUs like Battering Ram, Longbowman and Naresuans Elephant I'd say almost anything is better then that.

 

[Tomatekh]

I used "Tumen" for my Timurid mod:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=87103156

Granted that was more the name of a unit of their army than an individual type of soldier, but the point is it's not that hard to name a UU. I'm sure Firaxis could come up with something.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Right, but I'd think Firaxis would like to keep such UUs to a minimum (Naresuan's Elephant is better than "Bowman" or "Horse Archer"). Furthermore, the Timurids were an empire, but an incredibly short-lived one, and basically acted and organized like rich Huns (and collapsed just as quickly). I just think there would be other more deserving civs to include, even the Holy Roman Empire (who actually have a named UU, the Scaria cavalry).

The Timurids themselves might or might not be deserving, but we're long overdue for a Silk Road civ - Mongols and now Huns don't do the Silk Road region justice, a region that has been crucial to the history of Eurasia. The Timurids themselves however did have their importance - they were one of the important factors in bringing about the downfall of the Mongol remnants, were the ancestors of the Mughal Dynasty which was one of the greatest dynasties of India, were patron of the arts and sciences, and, if we want to go into th erealm of alternate history, were planning to invade Ming China and recreate the Mongol Empire had it not been for Tamerlane's death. Out of all the possibilties for a Silk Road civ (which I think I listed earlier in this thread or the other civ speculation one), many would argue that the Timurids are the likeliest choice simply due to the fact that Tamerlane is well-known to at least those with a casual knowledge of history - together with Attila and Genghis, he is one of the great nomad conquerors.

Even if the Timurids aren't really that deserving, civs don't get in because they're deserving - that's only one of the many factors (and even then it manifests as public perception of what "important" historical cultures and states were). But the Silk Road has never had proper representation, and with trade routes and all, it's about time it got it.

 

[Dragonflow]

And he was a great patron of arts, science and skull-architecture!

 

[Tomatekh]

the Timurids [...] basically acted and organized like rich Huns

This is completely untrue. They adopted the Persian courtly structure and were the center of Islamic learning at the time. They were huge patrons of art creating a new form of architecture and revolutionized the Chagatai language creating new literary forms. That's not really "organized Huns".

 

[Morningcalm]

Like the Huns, the empire collapsed due to bad management. Like the Huns, the Timurids conquered vast swathes of territory, relying on horse archers and siege weapons. Tamerlane and the Huns themselves were theorized to come from the same ethnic stock of Mongols. Like the Huns, the Timurids were bad empire-managers in their day (and unlike the Mongols, at least two of their rulers, Genghis and Kublai).

I think Timurids might be worthy as DLC, but I'd rather see the Ashanti, Hittites, Gran Colombia, Argentina, ancient Israel or some other civ that covers territory and culture we literally have never seen featured in Civ before.

 

[Tomatekh]

Like the Huns, the empire collapsed due to bad management. Like the Huns, the Timurids conquered vast swathes of territory, relying on horse archers and siege weapons. Tamerlane and the Huns themselves were theorized to come from the same ethnic stock of Mongols. Like the Huns, the Timurids were bad empire-managers in their day (and unlike the Mongols, at least two of their rulers, Genghis and Kublai).

I think Timurids might be worthy as DLC, but I'd rather see the Ashanti, Hittites, Gran Colombia, Argentina, ancient Israel or some other civ that covers territory and culture we literally have never seen featured in Civ before.

You complain about the length of the Timurid Empire but then suggest Gran Colombia that lasted all of 12 years? You complain the Timurids aren't ethnically different enough from the Mongols but then suggest the Holy Roman Empire in addition to Germany?

 

[cybrxkhan]

I think Timurids might be worthy as DLC, but I'd rather see the Ashanti, Hittites, Gran Colombia, Argentina, ancient Israel or some other civ that covers territory and culture we literally have never seen featured in Civ before.

The Timurids core is a territory that has not be fully represented yet - and no, the Mongols don't count; the Mongols just ran over Central Asia while their main core was in Mongolia and northern China. It'd be like saying England doesn't need to be in the game since the Roman Empire already ruled over Britain, or that we don't need China as a civ because the Japanese conquered half of it in WWII.

Likewise, we have not seen a depiction of any Silk Road culture properly. And no, again, the Mongols don't count for the same reason as above - if they did, you might as well say the Greeks and Spanish are the same culture. We are missing an entire region that's crucial to the economic history of the world and the cultural history of the much of Western and Southern Asia. Someone to represent the Silk Road is sorely needed. Are the Timurids the best example of a Silk Road civ? Maybe not. But they're the ones most likely to get in.

 

[Dragonflow]

Like the Huns, the empire collapsed due to bad management. Like the Huns, the Timurids conquered vast swathes of territory, relying on horse archers and siege weapons. Tamerlane and the Huns themselves were theorized to come from the same ethnic stock of Mongols. Like the Huns, the Timurids were bad empire-managers in their day (and unlike the Mongols, at least two of their rulers, Genghis and Kublai).

I think Timurids might be worthy as DLC, but I'd rather see the Ashanti, Hittites, Gran Colombia, Argentina, ancient Israel or some other civ that covers territory and culture we literally have never seen featured in Civ before.

The Timurids lasted from 1370-1507. This is a lot longer then the Huns and their military was very different. If I'm not mistaken then Timur actually deployed more heavy cavalry then light horse archer, which gave him a strong advantage over the Golden Horde who used outdated light cavalry tactics. Later the Timurids incorporated Indian Elephants into their armies and it was Timur's descendants who conquered almost all of India as the Mughals.