What's a Born Again Christian?

[puglover]

Jesus suffered and died on the cross that all men may have a chance at salvation. In other words, we had no hope of salvation, any of us under any circumstance, without it, regardless of what sort of life we lived.

Exactly. And that's the hope of the Gospel in the fullest sense of the word.

 

[mangxema]

If someone is presented with the gospel of Jesus Christ, and rejects it, after understanding it, experiencing the witness in the spirit of the truth of it, and then rejects it because of not wanting to associate with Christ (ie His church) because it would be, say, inconvenient, do you think this person gets another chance?

What if someone simply rejects the message? Are they still 'universally saved'? What do you mean by 'STILL HAVE A CHANCE..'?

That sounds like a very small percentage though... I would say most people who "witness in the spirit of the truth of it" would become Christian. If you believe it to be true, and then reject it anyway, that sounds like the Satanist beliefs. And there aren't very many of those.

 

[classical_hero]

Sorry, but I am still going to be a Roman Catholic Christian whether you like it or not. I am still going to believe that non-Christians do have a chance at salvation whether you like it or not.


Are you calling Pope John Paul II a heritic, because he too also said that Non-Christians do have a chance. Even Pope Benedict XVI has yet to publish his report about Non-Christians and salvaton. Things have changed you know MobBoss ever since Vatican II.

The issue is what people do with that Chance. Everyone is able to be saved but not everyone will be saved because you must first come to believe what God said.
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Notice that the man had to believe first before being saved and that slavation only comes upon those who believe, not to every soul.

 

[MobBoss]

Their salvation will also come about as a result of Christ's sacrifice. In fact, reven those who consciously and willfully reject him will recieve some measure of salvation, and it will be because of his Atonement.

Source please?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Okay, how about "I believ that this will happen"? But then, all your sources have been "MobBoss's interpretation of what the Bible is saying."

 

[MobBoss]

Okay, how about "I believ that this will happen"? But then, all your sources have been "MobBoss's interpretation of what the Bible is saying."

Then I give your assumption all the credit due its source.

And no, you are completely wrong on your allegation. If you care to debate the interpretation of such simple passages, by all means do so. We are not talking parables here, but fairly straight forward and basic biblical concepts.

 

[Quasar1011]

What about BC souls?

Old Testament (or as you say, BC souls) looked forward to the Redeemer and His work; we have the advantage of looking back at what He did:

Hebrews 11:11-13. 32-40
"By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."

Well, they have received some of the promise now.

Their salvation will also come about as a result of Christ's sacrifice. In fact, even those who consciously and willfully reject him will recieve some measure of salvation, and it will be because of his Atonement.

Those who reject Christ while alive, do not get a second chance after death.

Hebrews 9:27
"Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..."

"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or hisd Church, but never the less seek God with a sincere heart...try to do his will as they know it...throough conscience-those too may achieve eternal salvation" LG16, CCC 847.

That's not what the Bible says. There are no- as in zero- unevangelized heathens:

Romans 1:18-20
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

And no, you are completely wrong on your allegation. If you care to debate the interpretation of such simple passages, by all means do so. We are not talking parables here, but fairly straight forward and basic biblical concepts.

You yourself said earlier that it is your faith that leads you to believe that the Bible is true, and that certain verses are true, are as significant as you say, and mean what you think they mean. So you as a result believe what you believe not because it is proven but because you have faith. But you can't really criticize anyone else for coming to a different conclusion.

But this is getting OT and may merit a new thread.

 

[GenMarshall]

Okay, how about "I believ that this will happen"? But then, all your sources have been "MobBoss's interpretation of what the Bible is saying."

So you as a result believe what you believe not because it is proven but because you have faith. But you can't really criticize anyone else for coming to a different conclusion.

But this is getting OT and may merit a new thread.

I quite agree with thoes statements. For me, I go with "CivGeneral's interpretation of what the Bible is saying", not "MobBoss's interpretation".

 

[CurtSibling]

That is what I find fascinating about the bible, none of the religionists can agree on a definite interpretation.

On the thread subject:
I am led to believe both MobBoss and CivGeneral both adopted christian views after a period of non-religious experience.

Any chance of some insights into your pre-believer lives, and what made you get into religion?

.

 

[GenMarshall]

Any chance of some insights into your pre-believer lives, and what made you get into religion?

I have told my story over and over about this and I dont need to repeat it.

 

[CurtSibling]

Give us a link then to a previous instance of you telling it.

...

 

[GenMarshall]

Give us a link then to a previous instance of you telling it.

...

I cannot find previous links because I refuse to do your homework. If you are interested, look for it yourself.

I was baptized as a Roman Catholic Christian as an infant. However I was a hyperactive child and was not interested in religion. As a result I fell out of the church at the age of six and missed my First confirmation, first confession, and confirmation. Through out the years I had an agnostic viewpoint on God and had hopes that that there may be truths out there that he does exist. I found the existance of God through two events that happened in my life. A fenderbender that made me realize the value of life as well as felt the Holy Spirit into me as well as the passing of my late grandfather which further opened my eyes to God.

 

[CurtSibling]

Well, thanks! (sort of)

Perhaps MobBoss will be more inclined to share his insights!

 

[Adamb0mb]

Any christians here care to comment on confession?

Along the lines of do you go to confession these days? Do the priests assign prayers (20 Hail Marys and 15 Our Fathers or something) to patrons so that they may absolve themselves or is that a misconception?

 

[CurtSibling]

Confession is a strange ritual, and very human-orientated.
Surely repeating words will not impress a god?

I would like to hear more too.

.

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, thanks! (sort of)
Perhaps MobBoss will be more inclined to share his insights!

Well, gomennasai (Sorry) if it was the answer you were looking for. Becuase I have told this story to other people (Whom are non religious) and I have been ridiculed by it. So again gomennasai for the hostile tone.

Any christians here care to comment on confession?

Along the lines of do you go to confession these days? Do the priests assign prayers (20 Hail Marys and 15 Our Fathers or something) to patrons so that they may absolve themselves or is that a misconception?

The Sacrament of Penance (commonly called Confession, Reconciliation or Penance)

This I feel is a Catholic topic on here because Protestants reject the idea of confessing one's sin to a priest because they feel that confessing one's sin is left between them and God.

In Catholic thought, we believe that no ordinary man has the capacity to forgive Sins. Only God can. However God can and does exercise it through the Catholic priesthood. Catholics believe God exercises the power of forgiveness by means of the sacrament of penance, which can be administered validly by every validly ordained priest or bishop. This reasoning is based that the priest acts "in persona Christi".

In Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics (Eastern Rite) it is understood as a mystery.

Most oftenly the priest assigns you a penance. The most common penances involve the recitation of standard prayers, such as the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary, meditation on particular scriptural passages, or praying the rosary with special penitential intentions. This is done after he absolves you.

 

[CurtSibling]

No problems, CivGeneral...You did not come across as hostile at all!

I appreciate you taking the time to share your views.

.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Their salvation will also come about as a result of Christ's sacrifice. In fact, reven those who consciously and willfully reject him will recieve some measure of salvation, and it will be because of his Atonement.

If it means anything, I agree with you.

 

[El_Machinae]

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That clause has always confused me. Is it unique, or is the caveat "and your household" found elsewhere, with regards to salvation? I was always taught that salvation was personal.