What's a Born Again Christian?

[GenMarshall]

There is no sitting on the fence with this issue. basically if you hear the message and do nothing about it, then you basically are rejecting the message since the message is asking you to make a choice.

So it just boils down to eather accepting or rejecting if you heard it? So in a nutshell its just black and white. Not greyscale.

 

[bhsup]

So it just boils down to eather accepting or rejecting if you heard it? So in a nutshell its just black and white. Not greyscale.

That's what I've said many times here in CFC OT. On the moral issues of the world, it is all black and white. The world isn't shades of gray.

 

[Katheryn]

Yeah, I remember the Protestant services (I didn't realize that there was a distinction between mass and service until now) were a lot more 'relaxed' than the Catholic stuff I was used to. At first I even found it to be a bit disrespectful towards God, if you can believe that. I couldn't get used to the "Ok, let's get the guitar and break out into song" thing at all.



That's great, but it doesn't even begin to answer the question I asked.



My life could be better but it's good enough. Maybe not for you, but for me it is

I have no idea how "good" your life is, the question is how God views it, if you believe in Him, if you expect to give an accounting for your life. I don't plan to. I am told that I am "hid with Christ in God" and expect to rather slip through behind Jesus' apron strings, so to speak.


I thought the question you were asking was this:

What about those who have heard the message, haven't accepted it, but haven't rejected it either?

And the answer is this: God is longsuffering, which means patient. He knows who is His. Romans 11:29: The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

If you haven't rejected God, if you have put him off, if you are procrastinating, you do so at your risk, but it doesn't mean you have rejected Him.

I put God off for ..... about 6 years, myself, saying, later, later...

 

[Katheryn]

There is no sitting on the fence with this issue. basically if you hear the message and do nothing about it, then you basically are rejecting the message since the message is asking you to make a choice.

What? You can't really believe this. You didn't procrastinate at all? You didn't hear it and then think, 'maybe' - it's a pretty big decision to make, and most people take their time to make it.

I have known people who heard the message and downright said, "No". That is much different.

 

[bhsup]

Wavering and waiting to decide is all well and good as long as you're alive to finally make the right decision. But, Katheryn, what if you had been run over by a bus during those six years while you put God off?

 

[GenMarshall]

What? You can't really believe this. You didn't procrastinate at all? You didn't hear it and then think, 'maybe' - it's a pretty big decision to make, and most people take their time to make it.

I have known people who heard the message and downright said, "No". That is much different.

It took me a while when I was in a bit of a theist (Belief in God but not affiliated with a religion) period after I rediscovered God and before I accepted Christianity.

 

[Katheryn]

Wavering and waiting to decide is all well and good as long as you're alive to finally make the right decision. But, Katheryn, what if you had been run over by a bus during those six years while you put God off?

Very true. Jesus had a parable about that...
but what can I say, I was what... 15 years old! I put it off until I was 22.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Very true. Jesus had a parable about that...
but what can I say, I was what... 15 years old! I put it off until I was 22.

So, if at 17, the hypothetical bus ended your stay on earth would your soul be condemned to hell? An enternity of suffering for your 'procrastinating'?

 

[Katheryn]

So, if at 17, the hypothetical bus ended your stay on earth would your soul be condemned to hell? An enternity of suffering for your 'procrastinating'?

We all have a time of maturity, where we will be held accountable for our decisions. When that time occurs in each of our lives, only God knows.

I imagine it happens at different times in different cultures, but I have noticed that people always seem to go through a reflective stage when they have their first child. You wonder at the miracle of life, I think and conclude that there is more to life than what you can see with your eyes.

 

[Katheryn]

It took me a while when I was in a bit of a theist (Belief in God but not affiliated with a religion) period after I rediscovered God and before I accepted Christianity.

I knew what I was doing. We had a revival in our area, the Jesus Movement, with hippies and surfers, and contemporary music. I was in the middle of it. People were way different when they took the plunge.

So, I pretty much knew I could go off the deep end. Which, of course I did!

 

[Adamb0mb]

We all have a time of maturity, where we will be held accountable for our decisions. When that time occurs in each of our lives, only God knows.

That sounds similar to predestination to me. Not the mechanics of it, but the conclusion that no one knows whether they or anyone else goes to heaven because we can't define the 'time of maturity'.

What if you are immature and never survive to maturity, does whether or not you accept god have any bearing on your immortal soul?

 

[puglover]

That's what I've said many times here in CFC OT. On the moral issues of the world, it is all black and white. The world isn't shades of gray.

Unfortunately, the world isn't that simple. There are grays everywhere. The good news is that God doesn't judge like we do. He sees the heart. If there is a man willing to serve God and accept his own sinfulness with humility, God alone will redeem him.

Sometimes it isn't as simple as black and white. But we can trust that God has the power to judge perfectly, knowing and seeing all.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Pug is right. It is important for us, for our own sakes, to make the decision, and follow it; but we have to trust God that he will judge others as mercifully as He is able.

 

[warpus]

There is no sitting on the fence with this issue. basically if you hear the message and do nothing about it, then you basically are rejecting the message since the message is asking you to make a choice.

Is there scripture that says you either have to 100% accept it or 100% reject it?

I don't reject it but I view it as unlikely since there is no direct evidence. I am indifferent towards it, as I am with many other legends. They just don't affect me so I don't care much about them.. but I wouldn't say I reject them. That's too strong of a word.

That's what I've said many times here in CFC OT. On the moral issues of the world, it is all black and white. The world isn't shades of gray.

You'd think we'd all agree on what is moral and what isn't, if that were the case. But reality is that we can't even agree on the simplest of things.. Masturbation for example. or eating beef.. or pork.

If you haven't rejected God, if you have put him off, if you are procrastinating, you do so at your risk, but it doesn't mean you have rejected Him.

I haven't rejected God.. I'm an agnostic atheist of sorts - it's not easy to pin down my beliefs.. but I wouldn't say that I've rejected God. I've pretty much rejected the Biblical God - but leave the possibility of a God existing open.

So I'd say that I'm indifferent on the subject unless I am given some sort of a reason to start believing that he exists. I've seen zero indication that he does.. but I understand that this doesn't mean that he doesn't.

If a just God exists and he were to evaluate my belief system, he would see it to be just and fair.. if he had access to all my thoughts and memories. He could probably find faults, but then again, we all have faults. He wouldn't be able to find a fault worthy of eternal suffering, unless he's got a messed up moral compass.

 

[Katheryn]

That sounds similar to predestination to me. Not the mechanics of it, but the conclusion that no one knows whether they or anyone else goes to heaven because we can't define the 'time of maturity'.

What if you are immature and never survive to maturity, does whether or not you accept god have any bearing on your immortal soul?

Just because you know the end of a story doesn't mean you made it happen. God is omniscient, eternal, He knows the future. That doesn't mean that he helped us to make the choices.

And God knows when someone reaches maturity, He defines the 'time of maturity', so I don't have a problem with it. If a person never reaches it, then they are not accountable for a decision then.

Jesus said it this way, "To him who much is given, much is required" and he was talking about knowledge.

 

[Katheryn]

Is there scripture that says you either have to 100% accept it or 100% reject it?

I don't reject it but I view it as unlikely since there is no direct evidence. I am indifferent towards it, as I am with many other legends. They just don't affect me so I don't care much about them.. but I wouldn't say I reject them. That's too strong of a word.


I haven't rejected God.. I'm an agnostic atheist of sorts - it's not easy to pin down my beliefs.. but I wouldn't say that I've rejected God. I've pretty much rejected the Biblical God - but leave the possibility of a God existing open.

So I'd say that I'm indifferent on the subject unless I am given some sort of a reason to start believing that he exists. I've seen zero indication that he does.. but I understand that this doesn't mean that he doesn't.

If a just God exists and he were to evaluate my belief system, he would see it to be just and fair.. if he had access to all my thoughts and memories. He could probably find faults, but then again, we all have faults. He wouldn't be able to find a fault worthy of eternal suffering, unless he's got a messed up moral compass.

You can always ASK. If you ask, expecting to get an answer, you will get one. Just ASK.

If you can't do that, and give God a chance to prove to you that He does exist, and care about you, then just wait. You will find out someday what is really in a man (and in you) that is faulty enough, that is truly fallen. You just haven't seen it yet. Someday, you will find that you have it in you to hurt someone a great deal. Then you will want forgiveness.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

Everyone has it in them to hurt everyone else a great deal... it doesn't take god to keep most people from doing such things. I know a lot of atheists who could care less about the whole idea and concept of god and whatnot, but follow their own personal morals with more integrity than a lot of religious people - not to compare the two sides, but to make a point that a godless man can be just as noble as a religious one.

 

[Katheryn]

Everyone has it in them to hurt everyone else a great deal... it doesn't take god to keep most people from doing such things. I know a lot of atheists who could care less about the whole idea and concept of god and whatnot, but follow their own personal morals with more integrity than a lot of religious people - not to compare the two sides, but to make a point that a godless man can be just as noble as a religious one.

Uh, I think you missed the point completely!

Warpus was saying that he thought he was 'good enough' and that when the time came, he would be OK in God's eyes.

And I said that he just hasn't done anything bad enough yet, but his time will come. He will find that he has it in him just like we all do.

I never said that 'religious people' sinned any less than a godless man. I wouldn't say that because it is not true.

My pastor said recently in his sermon, "churches are hospitals for sinners, not museums for saints". Which sort of means that the people who sin most need church the most. Jesus said He came to save sinners... not the righteous.

And that is the point.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Warpus was saying that he thought he was 'good enough' and that when the time came, he would be OK in God's eyes.

And I said that he just hasn't done anything bad enough yet, but his time will come.

Wow, that is a harsh incrimination of Warpus's future actions.

 

[El_Machinae]

Wavering and waiting to decide is all well and good as long as you're alive to finally make the right decision. But, Katheryn, what if you had been run over by a bus during those six years while you put God off?

Or someone shot you while you were robbing their home? Too bad the loving and peaceful Christian didn't take the opportunity to be an example, instead of shooting you.

You can always ASK. If you ask, expecting to get an answer, you will get one. Just ASK.

That's right, Warpus, you have to decide (ahead of time) that you will acknowledge any intuition or presence as a positive result to your prayer. Of course, you have to be very careful about what presence you then invoke, because you can easily get a positive answer to whatever question you ask ...