What's a Born Again Christian?

[Mauer]

Well, that's not a reason to believe in the resurrection. You can see I never said that believing something till the death made it true. It's just listed as a consequence in 1 Corinthians if the resurrection didn't happen.

 

[warpus]

Well, that's not a reason to believe in the resurrection. You can see I never said that believing something till the death made it true. It's just listed as a consequence in 1 Corinthians if the resurrection didn't happen.

If the basic tenets of your religion aren't true, then of course you will die believing something that isn't true.. Why state the obvious?

 

[Mauer]

Because Paul was reminding the Christians in Corinth. Apparently they didn't see the obvious.

 

[warpus]

Because Paul was reminding the Christians in Corinth. Apparently they didn't see the obvious.

Yeah, but what does it have to do with what we're talking about here?

 

[Mauer]

Yeah, but what does it have to do with what we're talking about here?

Someone asked earlier, if the resurrection had to be believed to be a christian. I just pointed them to what the bible said about it.

 

[warpus]

Someone asked earlier, if the resurrection had to be believed to be a christian. I just pointed them to what the bible said about it.

So the Bible (quite obviously) says: "If we're wrong about this, then a lot of people have died believing things that aren't right"

What does this contribute to the discussion?

 

[GenMarshall]

Even if you dont take it litterally, idol worship is a blasphemy before God. There can be no question about it.

Sorry but I dont see other religions practacing their own faith as blasphemy.

I think its bad for anyone to compromise their faith. As I pointed out earlier, Christ said that I would be persecuted for merely following his path....I dont think you can follow Jesus and avoid being persecuted.

And yet you wonder why people are so hostile towards you on such controvertional issues

Thats not universal reconcilliation, but it is how Jesus says he will draw those even in the wilderness. Draw does not equat a free ticket into heaven. Sorry.

I am sorry to tell you Mr. Fundy, but that as well as numerous other silly scriptures that I have posted Are bible verses that support UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Wow. Every soul who will not hear that prophet (meaning Jesus) shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. So much for universal salvation! Thanks CG, you found the most direct denial of universal salvation! You rock! Case Closed!

No real need to go on I think. That scripture from Acts just seals the deal, completely. Thanks CG..nice find.

Sorry, but I see it as universal salvation. If you dont like it, well I denounce Christianity for being a double standard and religiously intolerant faith. I will take no part in a denomination (not Catholicism, but I am refering to Fundy Protestantism) that advocates that an atheist who agrees closely with Christian morals and does good for man kind ends up in eternaty in hell. I cannot accept that coming from a Protestant person who believes that 99% of the population is going to Hell. I cannot associate myself with you anymore if you want to see innocent good Hindus and non-Christians going to hell where good Christians end up in heaven. I cannot stomach this Double Standard that your silly book states. You sir, have turned off one Christian away from the Fundamentalist Protestant branch of Christianity. I dont give a flying willy what the Bible or Jesus has to say, but I firmly believe that there is universal salvation wheather you like it or not. GEEZE no wonder philosopher minded posters are fed up with you .

 

[CurtSibling]

Good posting, CivGeneral.

I can salute your courageous stance there.

.

 

[bhsup]

"I don't give a flying willy what the Bible or Jesus has to say...".

You're talking about Jesus Christ, right? Not Jesus (Spanish pronunciation)down the block at the local bowling alley, right? Jesus Christ...Christ as in Christianity, right? That's the Jesus whom you don't give a flying willy what he said?

 

[GenMarshall]

Good posting, CivGeneral.

I can salute your courageous stance there.

I personaly dont like being pushed around by Protestants who are uneasy with both my personal and world view on this issue.

On the world level, I hold on a belief of Religious pluralism in that all beliefs (or lack of) are equally valid within a believer's particular context. On a personal level, I am unsure where I fall under in Inclusivism since there are two schools.

Traditional Inclusivism, which asserts that the believer's own views are absolutely true, and believers of other religions are correct insofar as they agree with that believer.
Relativistic Inclusivism, which asserts that an unknown set of assertions are Absolutely True, that no human being currently living has yet ascertained Absolute Truth, but that all human beings have ascertained Absolute Truth to one degree or another.

I might fall under Traditional Inclusivism in which my belief is true in my own view where the belief of another individual is also true in his or her view.

 

[bhsup]

I personaly dont like being pushed around by Protestants who are uneasy with both my personal and world view on this issue.

I don't think anybody is pushing you around as trying to grasp your beliefs and where they come from. You're more than welcome to be wrong in your beliefs, that doesn't bother me (nor I suspect most any protestant) at all. It's your call and entirely between you and God.

 

[Trajan12]

Originally Posted by CivGeneral
I dont give a flying willy what the Bible or Jesus has to say

I have to take VCR's position on this. I hope Jesús is who you are refering to.

 

[GenMarshall]

I have to take VCR's position on this. I hope Jesús is who you are refering to.

I am refering to the one with the funny tail above the u . Sorry about the scare. Sometimes arguing with a Fundamentalist Protestant (MobBoss) does get on one's nerves

 

[MobBoss]

Sorry but I dont see other religions practacing their own faith as blasphemy.

Then you see it differently than the bible does.

And yet you wonder why people are so hostile towards you on such controvertional issues

Oh I dont wonder about it at all. I recognize it for what it is and accept it. I sure as hell dont compromise myself just to be socially accepted.

Sorry, but I see it as universal salvation. If you dont like it, well I denounce Christianity for being a double standard and religiously intolerant faith.

Its not a matter of whether I dont like it or not...its a matter of what the bible says. No more no less.

I will take no part in a denomination (not Catholicism, but I am refering to Fundy Protestantism) that advocates that an atheist who agrees closely with Christian morals and does good for man kind ends up in eternaty in hell.

Again, its not a denomination thing...its a biblical thing. If everyont got into heaven, whats the point of sin? Whats the point of repentance/pennance?

I cannot accept that coming from a Protestant person who believes that 99% of the population is going to Hell. I cannot associate myself with you anymore if you want to see innocent good Hindus and non-Christians going to hell where good Christians end up in heaven.

Full stop. Again, this isnt about what I want. Is that clear? Its about what the bible says. Heck, I would like to see everyone in heaven myself...however, that is just simply not what the bible says. Not at all.

I cannot stomach this Double Standard that your silly book states. You sir, have turned off one Christian away from the Fundamentalist Protestant branch of Christianity. I dont give a flying willy what the Bible or Jesus has to say, but I firmly believe that there is universal salvation wheather you like it or not. GEEZE no wonder philosopher minded posters are fed up with you .

All I can say about this is I have a massive case of Deja Vu at the moment.

I personaly dont like being pushed around by Protestants who are uneasy with both my personal and world view on this issue.

ROFL. Lets get one thing straight. I am not uneasy about you at all. I lose no sleep over you. NONE. I am here however, to set the record straight about what the bible says and what some seem to think it says.

On the world level, I hold on a belief of Religious pluralism in that all beliefs (or lack of) are equally valid within a believer's particular context. On a personal level, I am unsure where I fall under in Inclusivism since there are two schools.

So, really good citizens that are members of the Church of Satan still get into heaven? Ohhh, kaaay.

CG, stop and think a moment. Think about what it means exactly when the most anti-religious, strong-athiest tells you he is proud of you. Think about it very carefully.

I am refering to the one with the funny tail above the u . Sorry about the scare. Sometimes arguing with a Fundamentalist Protestant (MobBoss) does get on one's nerves

What kind of crap is this. We are talking about only one Jesus here in this discussion....Jesus Christ the son of God.

Oh. My. Goodness. The level to which some people will deceive themselves is simply amazing.

 

[Quasar1011]

Are bible verses that support UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Sorry, but I see it as universal salvation.

You can see it that way if you wish. But those Wikipedia verses really don't support universal salvation. I won't take the time to go through them all, but here are a few from the Wikipedia link you posted:

Bible verses used to support universal reconciliation
These Bible verses are commonly seen as support for the universal reconciliation doctrine:

• John 12:32: "And I (Jesus Christ), when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Drawing all people to Himself, does not equal all people choosing to put their faith in Christ. It's still up to the individual to make a choice to serve Christ as Lord and Saviour.

• 1 John 2:1-2 "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Jesus Christ- the infinite God-man, paid for all the sins of the world. Those sins, while exceedingly great, still can be numbered. Christ's sacrifice was more than enough to pay the price of justice that God demanded. John stated the case in such a way that people coming to Christ in the future could rest assured their sins were paid for too. What a shame to have such a thing paid for, and then to refuse to believe it!

• Acts 3:21: [Jesus] "must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through the prophets."

Restoring all things does not mean all will be saved. For those who are unrighteous, were born that way. You cannot be "restored" to righteousness, if you were never righteous. Rather, it is the free gift of God- Jesus takes mankind's sins, and in exchange offers mankind His righteousness!
That is one thing that happens at the born-again experience!

 

[CurtSibling]

I detect a Crusader schism and civil war in progress...

Most amusing.

 

[GenMarshall]

Oh I dont wonder about it at all. I recognize it for what it is and accept it. I sure as hell dont compromise myself just to be socially accepted.

This is where you and I differ, I do want to be socially accepted. Not riticuled and called a hypocrite.

Its not a matter of whether I dont like it or not...its a matter of what the bible says. No more no less.

Again, I dont care what your belief in Sola Scriptura has to say. I aint a protestant .

Again, its not a denomination thing...its a biblical thing. If everyont got into heaven, whats the point of sin? Whats the point of repentance/pennance?

Ever heard of venial and moral sin? Ever heard of a thing called purgitory? Though talking to a Protestant you reject much of Catholic Dogma. This is the thing youre going to have to accept is that not every Christian and Christian Denomination would agree with your view on religiocentricism.

Full stop. Again, this isnt about what I want. Is that clear? Its about what the bible says. Heck, I would like to see everyone in heaven myself...however, that is just simply not what the bible says. Not at all.

Again, I reject the bibles view of religiocentricism and interpreate it differently. THis is the thing you are going to have to accept since not every Christian will agree to you!

All I can say about this is I have a massive case of Deja Vu at the moment.

Perhaps I am not clear with you I reject Protestant Christianity and it's Double Standard views and Religiocentric view of the afterlife I only accept Roman Catholic Christianity.

 

[MobBoss]

I detect a Crusader schism and civil war in progress...

Most amusing.

Heh, yeah Curt...always waiting in the wings to pick the weak ones off arent you?

 

[Sidhe]

Good posting, CivGeneral.

I can salute your courageous stance there.

.

Quite agree, you do have to understand though that the evangelical version of Christianity isn't a major one, so it's nice to see the more mainstream views of the Churches of the world put out there. I'm sure they're all wrong , there interpritation is an anathema to the fundementalist cause, but frankly, they're more accepted and you have every right to expound them. And good luck with that, I must say that both sides of this debate have produced a great deal of room for thought. And both sides should be lauded for it.

 

[MobBoss]

This is where you and I differ, I do want to be socially accepted. Not riticuled and called a hypocrite.

Then dont be a christian. We are not in it to be socially accepted. Its not some club. Matthew 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Again, I dont care what your belief in Sola Scriptura has to say. I aint a protestant .

Well, in all honesty, I dont think even you know what you are.

Ever heard of venial and moral sin? Ever heard of a thing called purgitory? Though talking to a Protestant you reject much of Catholic Dogma. This is the thing youre going to have to accept is that not every Christian and Christian Denomination would agree with your view on religiocentricism.

I dont believe in a lot of Catholic Dogma because I dont see support for it in the bible. If you are so down on mens mistranslation of the bible, dont you realize those same men were the ones that came up with Catholic Dogma? /sheesh.

Again, I reject the bibles view of religiocentricism and interpreate it differently. THis is the thing you are going to have to accept since not every Christian will agree to you!

The reverse is true as well, CG. Not many will agree with you, and you are just going to have to accept the fact that many christians do indeed see it the way I do. Just look at folks comments here in this thread.

Perhaps I am not clear with you I reject Protestant Christianity and it's Double Standard views and Religiocentric view of the afterlife I only accept Roman Catholic Christianity.

Do Roman Catholics all believe in universal acceptance?

EDIT: UH OH, CG...I found this on your very own link on universal acceptance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...rses_used_to_support_universal_reconciliation

Universalism formally condemned
Universal salvation was not considered heresy until the sixth century, when it was formally declared so in 544 A.D. by the Roman Catholic Church, in a council called by Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian in Constantinople. Justinian appointed Christian patriarch Mennas to condemn the teaching and doctrine as taught by Origen. From that point forward, the doctrine of limited salvation has remained the prevalent Christian teaching from the Middle Ages to recent time.

So...are you a heretic or do you accept the Roman Catholics ruling on the issue? Oh and thanks for the link...it cleared a lot up.