What's your recipe for Deity success?

[Owlbebach]

I frequently change my plans mid-game. With someone like Carthage who takes progress, I won't know how I intend to win for quite a while. Usually its after the religious situation is clear and I've taken my second policy tree.

Right, but it does not make any sense to play Carthage-Tourism at the first place. Carthage-Science and Carthage-Diplo both seem to be great options, though to me Diplo seems to be a slightly stronger option for Carthage

EDIT: I mean sure Carthage CAN play Tourism, but so is Sweden and Mongolia. Question is why should it?
For me it is not only about winning the game, but winning the most efficient way, which means to win as early as possible.

EDIT2: It is always about having synergies and assembling a puzzle. I do not see any advantages for Carthage-Tourism play, but for example i clearly see how Aztec can play Tourism. While Aztec were designed to be aggressive and warmonger - you can pick Tradition and farm a very fast Religfion with the help of your Cats and get lots of gold to speed up awful Tradition cities early on. After that you can utilize GA advantages of Tradition and Aztec while playing more or less peacefully. This sounds like an interesting gameplan that makes sense, while playing Tourism for Carthage will be... dunno, just a worse version of any other tourism-focused civ

 

[MrDiap]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...o-tourism-for-washington-photojournal.631367/

Dude, this is sick. Learned alot!
Do you have any videos by any chance?

Maybe, but i play rarely nowadays. This was actually my last finished game. Started 2 or 3 other games since then, but didn't finish. Honestly i already played so much that it becomes less interesting because all basic mechanics are already studied - even after lots of recent changes you still build the same building and take same policies. Reciept for winning the game is still the same

Are you saying that it is still the same strategy if you go after domination vs culture victory?

 

[CppMaster]

Dude, this is sick. Learned alot!
Are you saying that it is still the same strategy if you go after domination vs culture victory?

No, I understood him that is the same strategy for new versions vs old versions of Vox Populi, because it doesn't change that much. Domination and Culture victories are very different, he can't win by domination with the strategy he described in the photo-journal.

 

[Owlbebach]

Dude, this is sick. Learned alot!
Do you have any videos by any chance?

No, i'm not that crazy. There are other journals you can look for, especially those made my randomnub and CrazyG

Are you saying that it is still the same strategy if you go after domination vs culture victory?

Well... it is not, but you still need to increase you science, culture and production in order to win, right?

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Are there, in your opinion, any civs that can be used in two different ways (for example both progress and authority, or both statecraft and artistry), more or less equally in order to win on Deity?

What would you like to see in VP that would help address the situation you've described in your earlier posts?

Is the option of certain victory conditions becoming disabled upon entering Atomic era (IIRC) something that makes the games more interesting for you?

 

[Owlbebach]

Are there, in your opinion, any civs that can be used in two different ways (for example both progress and authority, or both statecraft and artistry), more or less equally in order to win on Deity?

Lots. Carthage was a great example of civ that goes both Progress and Authority and then chooses from Diplo and Science, just not Tourism. Aztec, Venice can play everything for sure. Korea is not Tradition-only at all. Many others i guess.

What would you like to see in VP that would help address the situation you've described in your earlier posts?

I do not think anything is needed, especcially given the current state of development. After all there should be civs that are more effective in one or another part of the game and Deity should be about maximum efficiency.
But theoretically i think it is about policies design, while it became way better since Piety was changed to Fealty, they still force you way to much towards one paticular victory condition.

Is the option of certain victory conditions becoming disabled upon entering Atomic era (IIRC) something that makes the games more interesting for you?

Honestly i never tried it, and probably i should) Though i doubt it is possibly to win with it on Deity right now. As i said - i still win about 30-40% of Deity games and i usually reroll 2 or 3 times before starting the game, because sometimes you just see that now way it is gonna work, not on this map (however i play (slightly) overpopulated Pangea which is harder to play for sure. On Continents it is way easier)

 

[CrazyG]

Right, but it does not make any sense to play Carthage-Tourism at the first place. Carthage-Science and Carthage-Diplo both seem to be great options, though to me Diplo seems to be a slightly stronger option for Carthage

Playing for science and playing for diplomatic seem to be two really different scenarios so I don't see how this confirms what you were saying earlier though. Like I'm going to be making very different choices throughout the mid and late game depending on which one will happen. Furthermore, after learning the situation on the other continent I adjusted my plans a lot.

I mean I could see a situation where I want to win via tourism as Carthage. Like if Korea is in the game unless someone conquers him, I won't win by science. So if diplomacy just isn't going right its an option. 2 extra trade routes, a good chance at a flexible religion, and strong early game will make a tourism victory very possible.

 

[Owlbebach]

Playing for science and playing for diplomatic seem to be two really different scenarios so I don't see how this confirms what you were saying earlier though. Like I'm going to be making very different choices throughout the mid and late game depending on which one will happen.

They definitely are, though they are pretty similar in the early-mid game. Difference starts around end of renaissance, where you need to focus on Wire-Services and production/gold instead of science.

I mean I could see a situation where I want to win via tourism as Carthage. Like if Korea is in the game unless someone conquers him, I won't win by science. So if diplomacy just isn't going right its an option. 2 extra trade routes, a good chance at a flexible religion, and strong early game will make a tourism victory very possible.

What in the world should happen to make screw up both Science and Diplo for Carthage and not screw up Toursim? Seriously i do not understand that, especially on Continents map. Carthage on Continets pretty guaranteed to have one of the strongest religions in the game (God of Commerce) and you are guaranteed to oblitirate at least one of your neighbours with those scary boats and Authority. By the start of Classical you should have 2 other neighbours on your continent and it should not be a problem to vassalize at least one of them. And if something whent wrong i really do not see any chance of switching into Tourism. Last time I barely won Tourism when i was focused on it from the very beginning of the game (with Washington)

 

[CrazyG]

What in the world should happen to make screw up both Science and Diplo for Carthage and not screw up Toursim? Seriously i do not understand that, especially on Continents map. Carthage on Continets pretty guaranteed to have one of the strongest religions in the game (God of Commerce) and you are guaranteed to oblitirate at least one of your neighbours with those scary boats and Authority. By the start of Classical you should have 2 other neighbours on your continent and it should not be a problem to vassalize at least one of them. And if something whent wrong i really do not see any chance of switching into Tourism. Last time I barely won Tourism when i was focused on it from the very beginning of the game (with Washington)

Actual in game example...............

My neighbors do not have coastal cities and the terrain is mountainous, hard to attack. I have no horses. No early conquest.
Everyone on my continent gets a religion, and all 3 AI have personalities to pursue CS and diplomatic victory pretty heavily. We fight wars which are stalemates.
Can't spread my religion much, forced to buy inquisitors. I reformed using Cathedral of Basil.
I meet the other continent. Byz is the only civ who got a religion there. Everyone is following it, she has far more votes than anyone else in World Congress. Tried to flip France using great prophets, he followed my religion for a while but I couldn't match the pressure.

Diplomatic victory is out. I'm trying science, but its looking really difficult because some of these other civs have really strong late game, and I don't.

In this situation, I wish I took Artistry and went for a tourism victory. None of the other civs have particularly strong culture output, and I've already achieved a decent level of influence just from historic events and trade routes. Tourism victories come earlier than science, which gives my enemies less time to win. In particular, I'm looking at Byz's massive vote count, and denying her 2 or 3 sessions of the UN would be a big deal.

 

[Owlbebach]

Actual in game example...............

My neighbors do not have coastal cities and the terrain is mountainous, hard to attack. I have no horses. No early conquest.
Everyone on my continent gets a religion, and all 3 AI have personalities to pursue CS and diplomatic victory pretty heavily. We fight wars which are stalemates.
Can't spread my religion much, forced to buy inquisitors. I reformed using Cathedral of Basil.
I meet the other continent. Byz is the only civ who got a religion there. Everyone is following it, she has far more votes than anyone else in World Congress. Tried to flip France using great prophets, he followed my religion for a while but I couldn't match the pressure.

Diplomatic victory is out. I'm trying science, but its looking really difficult because some of these other civs have really strong late game, and I don't.

In this situation, I wish I took Artistry and went for a tourism victory. None of the other civs have particularly strong culture output, and I've already achieved a decent level of influence just from historic events and trade routes. Tourism victories come earlier than science, which gives my enemies less time to win. In particular, I'm looking at Byz's massive vote count, and denying her 2 or 3 sessions of the UN would be a big deal.

Well if the terrain is THAT rough and you neighbours have religions and are diplomace-focused - i agree. But lets be honest this is a scenario from somewhere outside of 2 sigmas right?

Also how is that possible that your neighbours do not have coastal line on continents?

 

[tu_79]

Well if the terrain is THAT rough and you neighbours have religions and are diplomace-focused - i agree. But lets be honest this is a scenario from somewhere outside of 2 sigmas right?

Also how is that possible that your neighbours do not have coastal line on continents?

Maybe AI avoided settling in the coast? I didn't know it could do that.

 

[CrazyG]

Well if the terrain is THAT rough and you neighbours have religions and are diplomace-focused - i agree. But lets be honest this is a scenario from somewhere outside of 2 sigmas right?

Also how is that possible that your neighbours do not have coastal line on continents?

None of their capitals are coastal (this isn't uncommon on continents). My nearest neighbor only has 1 coastal city. I won't hold it with just navy.

Really the only reason to prefer science victory over tourism is personal bias, Carthage doesn't have very much going for either win condition. If I had a different reformation belief or artistry (or both) I would have plenty of tourism. You aren't using all the tools available to you if you only go for cultural victories with tradition.

 

[chicorbeef]

None of their capitals are coastal (this isn't uncommon on continents). My nearest neighbor only has 1 coastal city. I won't hold it with just navy.

Really the only reason to prefer science victory over tourism is personal bias, Carthage doesn't have very much going for either win condition. If I had a different reformation belief or artistry (or both) I would have plenty of tourism. You aren't using all the tools available to you if you only go for cultural victories with tradition.

How exactly do you go for wide tourism victory now that the tourism penalty per city is so high?

 

[CrazyG]

How exactly do you go for wide tourism victory now that the tourism penalty per city is so high?

There are strong sources of tourism for wide, such as zoos or broadcast towers. I've won tourism with progress several times. Religion is important.

 

[chicorbeef]

There are strong sources of tourism for wide, such as zoos or broadcast towers. I've won tourism with progress several times. Religion is important.

Right, but you still have -63% base tourism penalty from 10 cities. Or a -49% tourism penalty from 8 cities. How do you manage that? How many cities do you found? I've only done wide culture victory as Polynesia, and only when the tourism penalty for cities was -3% per city.
Speaking about Religion-do you go for Stupas when doing wide Culture Victory? Sacred Sites seems good now but I'm guessing you go TGOG more often. I just don't know how to accumulate enough tourism with such a massive penalty. What is your tourism per turn like with Progress tourism? How many wonders (if any) do you get?
Edit: Also have you ever tried Way of the Pilgrim?

 

[CrazyG]

Right, but you still have -63% base tourism penalty from 10 cities. Or a -49% tourism penalty from 8 cities. How do you manage that? How many cities do you found? I've only done wide culture victory as Polynesia, and only when the tourism penalty for cities was -3% per city.
Speaking about Religion-do you go for Stupas when doing wide Culture Victory? Sacred Sites seems good now but I'm guessing you go TGOG more often. I just don't know how to accumulate enough tourism with such a massive penalty. What is your tourism per turn like with Progress tourism? How many wonders (if any) do you get?
Edit: Also have you ever tried Way of the Pilgrim?

I have 7 cities in my current game. Yes, you get a penalty, but you can still win.
TgGoG all the way in my opinion.

 

[besset]

@CrazyG can you make another deity photojournal? those are awesome

 

[CrazyG]

@CrazyG can you make another deity photojournal? those are awesome

I don't have that many photos but I will write a story with what I have for this game