When do barbarian units enter cultural borders

[EmperorFool]

Summarizing Dan's many posts on the subject, the antibarbification area is the union of all tiles visible (non-fog) by any non-barb unit and all tiles within 2 tiles of any unit (barb or otherwise).

There are two exceptions:

• Hostile villagers will naturally spawn barbs adjacent to the unlucky visitor.
• Barb cities can spawn in the fog--which may be 2 tiles away from a unit--and they will contain spawned defenders.

Does that about cover it? BTW, I jumped into the middle of this thread with the first mention of the 2-tile radius thing, so I haven't read the part about the galleys yet.

 

[mystyfly]

^ You still don't mention culture borders... did I miss them anywhere? I didn't see them mentionned.

Oh and, barbs prevent new barbs from spawning??

A clearup post would be appreciated

 

[EmperorFool]

^ You still don't mention culture borders... did I miss them anywhere? I didn't see them mentionned.

Cultural borders push back the fog; I figured this went without saying since they make tiles visible.

Oh and, barbs prevent new barbs from spawning??

That's what the big man said, "within 2 tiles of any unit."

 

[mystyfly]

Cultural borders push back the fog; I figured this went without saying since they make tiles visible.

Yeah, and I thought visible tiles are the ones where no barbs can spawn... I think this is even one of the "tips" you read when the game is loading.

 

[EmperorFool]

Yeah, and I thought visible tiles are the ones where no barbs can spawn.

They are some of the ones where no barbs can spawn. The other tiles where barbs cannot spawn are those within 2 tiles of any unit.

The full area where barbs cannot spawn is the intersection of these two areas.

I'm thinking that this would be an excellent new feature for BUG: hit a hotkey to see the entire Barb Free Zone created by all visible units and the visible tiles. A good option would be to ignore the visible tiles because those are already immediately visible on the map.

This would show precisely what DanF did above using the dotmap tool with a single keypress. It would also show it as one contiguous area.

 

[sfnhltb]

So I supposed in theory you could deliberately fog bust in such a way as to try and encourage barb cities to appear in specific locations - i.e. places you want a city anyway, potentially saving you a settler.

 

[oyzar]

Any unit means settlers and workers too right? It isn't just military units?

 

[Lexad]

Barb cities on uninhabited islands (no civ-players) --> AREAAI_ASSAULT_MASSING / AREAAI_ASSAULT Barb cities on uninhabited islands (no civ-players) --> AREAAI_ASSAULT_MASSING / AREAAI_ASSAULT

Thanx, Dan. And could you please expand a bit on this behaviour?

 

[DanF5771]

Any unit means settlers and workers too right? It isn't just military units?

Yup!


@ Lexad:

Oops, seems I was wrong about AREAAI_ASSAULT_MASSING -- that AreaAIType is not used by the barbs.
I assumed the mechanics here were similar to the ones responsible for the progression from AREAAI_MASSING --> AREAAI_OFFENSIVE depending on the number and UnitAIs of the available units. But the units don't have an effect.

Regular AIs will calculate AREAAI_ASSAULT_MASSING in situations, where they are preparing for an intercontinental invasion (WARPLAN_PREPARING_TOTAL or WARPLAN_PREPARING_LIMITED). After the fixed turns of preparations are over they will switch to WARPLAN_TOTAL / WARPLAN_LIMITED and the corresponding AreaAIType AREAAI_ASSAULT. (There is no switching out of WHEOOHRN ala ALC#24-Saladin if the target is on another landmass.)

So the barbs just use AREAAI_ASSAULT if they are alone on an island.
The AreaAITypes have an effect on what the AIs choose to produce in their cities, and how they value and move their units (very complex). AREAAI_ASSAULT will let the barbs launch intercontinental raids Viking-style IF they can reach other civs' cities via Galleys. They are not allowed to build better transport ships (but they can build Privateers, Frigates and Paratroopers ).

 

[Lexad]

Why, that's quite a mint, thanx! As for the Viking-style raids, that is perfectly correct. Any idea why they can cut the operations short (no enemy fleet opposing, no barbs or their cities left on the target landmass)? If it falls in the "very comples" domain, do not strain yourself.

 

[Charsky]

Barb Animals start appearing after game turn 5 (hard coded, independent of game speed). As mentioned earlier the game stops spawning them if both of the following two conditions are met:

1. The average number of (non-barb) cities per player must be >= 1.5.
   .
2. A certain number of game turns must have elapsed (depending on difficulty [iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed] and game speed [iBarbPercent], marathon is special with 400%).

Dan or anyone else,

In what file does this logic live? I'd like to be able to edit these two conditions.

Thank you

 

[obsolete]

I wish you could also tell us when our workers are not going to AUTO-STOP their task, and instead get STUCK there to get clobbered on some turns.

This bug seems to happen with the AI ONCE in a while, which lets me steal one now and then with only a 1-movement unit. And it actually makes me sick all the times it happens to me.

 

[DanF5771]

whoops - how did this thread turn into an article?

@ Charsky:

This little logic lives in three files:

1. CvGame.cpp: the condition "average number of cities >= 1.5" is coded in the method CvGame::createBarbarianUnits(), you can find the mentioned hard coded game-turn-5 trigger in CvGame::createAnimals(). Note that changes of the game's source code made here require the compilation of a new dll!
2. CIV4HandicapInfo.xml + CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml: the parameters iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed and iBarbPercent can be altered easily for the various difficulty levels / game speeds in these xml-files (don't change the original files, better put copies in your custom assets folder).

Welcome to the forums !

@ obsolete:

Queued orders of the form 1> move into new tile; 2> start improving it seem to be the problem. This includes the <Alt+R> Route To Mode:

​

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't know why, but that graphic is just hilarious to me.

It's a pretty bad issue though. It forces extra micro management when none should be necessary.

 

[obsolete]

Queued orders of the form 1> move into new tile; 2> start improving it seem to be the problem. This includes the <Alt+R> Route To Mode:

Hmm, seems you have the option to also Road INTO a tile, instead of stepping INTO a tile and THEN roading it. But I guess both methods get bugged up just the same when the barb comes into range.

Anyway, that cartoon made my day...

 

[Yamps]

Well, since the thread is active again and there's always something to ask...

When exactly do barb cities start to spam and what are the rules about that? I remember reading somewhere that barb cities are more likely to spam on continents with more claimed tiles, thus making them less likely on an isolated continent...Is this correct?

Oh, and I just can't stop watching to that image...

 

[The Snug]

I don't know why, but that graphic is just hilarious to me.

It's a pretty bad issue though. It forces extra micro management when none should be necessary.

I hate this behavior. I've lost so many settlers, workers and even military units bcz they fail to "see" a barb that is clearly visible to me, but I was unable to wake it up in time before it auto-moved.

I don't know, this thread was interesting to me, but I can't help thinking that possessing a knowledge of all these details constitutes cheating. I wouldn't want this to be in BUG, bcz it is behavior that is supposed to be hidden from the human. It's all very exploitive. It's sorta like getting a free advance copy of your opponents location and battle plans a few days before the battle is going to take place. A veritable crystal ball.

Of course it makes the game easier, but it just isn't right. When TMIT mentioned barb-galley busting to me last week, I felt like I was slimed with godlike information not meant for the ears of mere mortals.

Is it possible, through xml, to edit what units the barbs can create. I'd love to see Barb paratroopers and chariots and frigates and destroyers.

 

[Yamps]

^Barbs can build paratroopers. There was a list of units that they can build somewhere...Regarding too excessive game mechanics knowledge and that 'cheating' feeling, that's just the way it is. My big interest for game mechanics came after my first sgotm: "So, Washington doesn't declare at Pleased and Demographics power is useless to prevent a DoW anyway so we were building walls and units for nothing...we shall remember this!"

 

[The Snug]

I have never seen a barb paratrooper. Has anyone else? Maybe we should give them an event that gifts them flight so that they can actually build them.

I've never seen a barb fighter either, for that matter.

 

[Yamps]

^have a look on the last sgotm for some real barb action.