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When do you use Musketmen?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Diamondeye, Nov 8, 2007.

?

When do you use musketmen?

  1. When they are my Unique Units (Oromo or Janissary)

    29.5%
  2. When I have a serious tech lead

    9.2%
  3. When I'm Aggressive

    2.8%
  4. When I'm Protective

    8.8%
  5. Two or more of the above (please specify)

    12.4%
  6. Other (please specify)

    18.9%
  7. Never!

    18.4%
  1. duende29

    duende29 Loud Brat

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Caracas
    I only mass them as Ethiopia, and not even to attack with them, but to upgrade 'em to +Drill2 Rifles :p

    Drill3 Rifles? O bby!
     
  2. Navarre

    Navarre Legio XIII

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    536
    Location:
    France
    I play on Marathon to make the lifespan of units longer, and musketmen are really cool once you're used to them. No counter, no promotion against them : if you get them soon enough, your opponent can only rely on knights to stop them until Military Science hits the scene. If he doesn't have horses, he's screwed. And even with knights, you just throw in some pikemen and give your musketmen Combat II and the promotion versus mounted units, and you can take empires down before MS changes the odds.

    I've even found a use to Musketeers, which I tought to be the worst UU of the game : a stack of 4 running in your enemy's empire and camping on the horses resources will prevent him from getting knights, and they will defeat pretty much anything else attacking them, unless your enemy is ready to sacrifice a lot of troops to take your cheap Musketeers out. Besides, if you fight far away from home, they're good reinforcements and garnison troops for all your conquered cities.

    BTW, another advantage : musketmen are resourceless. And if like me you're doomed to always lack 2 resources out of 3, that's really cool.
     
  3. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    This is the tactic we are using in a hotseat team game I have going on. Combat 2 muskets with anti-mount promotions will give you around a 76% chance of victory vs. knights. And it only takes 1-2 kills at those odds to get combat 3.

    That's a nice tactic. I may have to remember that when I get to play the french next.
     
  4. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
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    2,057
    Location:
    World's largest lentil producer
    I think at 10 strength you need to protect horse from musketmen ;)
     
  5. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,550
    Location:
    Torquay, England
    I never train Musketmen: playing as I do at Normal speed, their functional span is short, and I find Longbowmen sufficient as defenders.
    But why aren't Musketeers mentined in the poll ? They make a useful attack unit with their movement of 2.
     
  6. Navarre

    Navarre Legio XIII

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    536
    Location:
    France
    And they're cheap to promote to riflemen. Riflemen with Combat II or III and promotion against mounted units makes you pretty immune to cavalry for the next age.

    Here's another : send some spies with them or just before to revolt cities while you're attacking, and skip the siege units. You'll have SoD with 2 Movement able to defend the conquered cities. Conquer a city, heal while new Musketeers arrive, rinse and repeat. Running Theocracy and Vassalage, your enemy only having macemen or longbows to defend, you'll cut in an empire like a hot knife in butter with very few casualties on your side.
     
  7. Cabay Jet

    Cabay Jet Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    279
    I build musketmen only when my enemy has Combat 2+Shock promoted knights running around that chew up my pikemen like there's no tomorrow to detract from their +25% melee bonus.
     
  8. Reggie

    Reggie Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Iserlohn, Germany
    I only play Marathon, but even then i find Musket's to short lived to be worth build. So i build just one while i am Teching for Rifleing. Usually Gunpowder comes after the first major War, in the Phase where i get my Economy back on track and build the new Citys up, and get the latest buildings in my core Citys...
     
  9. Cytral

    Cytral Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2001
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I build them on any other speed then quick.
    and I usualy beeline for assembly and then rifling
     
  10. jimbob27

    jimbob27 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,430
    Location:
    London
    I use them all the time. I play marathon, so they have a big period of usefullness.

    I think the thing people are forgetting, is although they're not the most powerful unit..... you get them at a time when your economy is well developed enough to do some serious city-taking.

    During earlier eras, expansion is usually slowed by your economy, however by the time musketmen are available your economy should be sufficiently developed to take a lot of AI cities.

    You basically have a trade-off. Attack with weaker musket units as soon as your economy is able to support lots of cities....... or wait, and let your economy stifle a bit, whilst you're teching towards cavalry, grenadiers or rifles.
     
  11. Llacheu

    Llacheu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    I once built a number of musketmen for one very good reason : I got the quest for it, and got a Golden Age as a reward for owning the Taj Mahal:)
     
  12. Cytral

    Cytral Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2001
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    Location:
    Amsterdam
    ?

    doesn't the Taj give you an golden age?
     
  13. LemonJello

    LemonJello Warlord

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    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    The Crossroads of the Marine Corps
    I build muskets if I'm in deep poo and need a unit to beat back an invasion or some city defenders on the borders. Otherwise, I keep using maces/longbows/pikes until rifling and then the troops start getting churned out.

    So, really, they're a unit of last resort/desperation for me.
     
  14. Llacheu

    Llacheu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
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    You got the Golden Age once the Taj MAhal is done, yes.

    But if you then get the quest to build the musketmen, and complete that quest, you get a new Golden Age (other rewards for the quest are a lumpsum of gold if you are under the vassality civic, or all musketmen get the promotion vs gunpowdre unit)
     
  15. Stolen Rutters

    Stolen Rutters Deity

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    Jun 7, 2006
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    I use muskets when I beeline to Liberalism and need a military advantage quick. Gunpowder as the free tech helps helps me jump ahead when everyone else is piling on the ranged units, or anti-mounted units, and I need something to counter before cuirassiers and rifling.
     
  16. Draknith

    Draknith King

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
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    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    I will generally build three right away, and name them character names for my "three musketeers." After that though, I'll build a few divisions (three units) of muskets just to suppliment my pre gunpowder army.
     
  17. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    I rarely use muskets, except maybe as emergency city defenders. They don't seem to have a significant edge over the maceman/pikemen/crossbowmen era units, and they lack any specialised role to excel in. Even in marathon mode, Rifling is generally on the horizon, so I'll wait for that. I prefer to be building city raider maces while I still can, and then upgrade them, than muskets which can't get CR.
     
  18. Ormur

    Ormur Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    332
    I've never really used them. I tend not to go to war at the time that they are available so I only build them as a defensive unit for new cities before the rifleman becomes available, that is to say not very often.
     
  19. Gypsy1220

    Gypsy1220 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Indiana
    Like was said by llacheu, I only build muskets when I get the quest-I always beeline for rifling/assemby line for infantry so even on marathon they are not useful for a long enough period...plus they come at a time when I generally have lots of other options to build in my cities (financial & lightbulb buildings)
     
  20. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
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    i only make them if i'm zara or if i get the 8 muskets quest. mehmed if i have a big tech lead.

    i was building Taj, and while making it i got that Guns and Butter quest. i made first to finish Taj first, and then pumped out 8 muskets during that golden age which got me a free second GA :D.

    the silly thing was that beforehand, i got a random event called Smokeless Powder which already gives all musketmen free pinch. i think i got it like 5 turns after learning gunpowder, hadn't made anything requiring it yet. and i wasn't in vassalage. so if i didn't have Taj, none of the options would have done a darn thing for me :lol:.
     

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