When do you use Musketmen?

[Diamondeye]

True enough, though the extra for muskets are free if you're getting them through drafting.

As was mentioned before, the combat odds change significantly if there are any crossbowmen defending your enemies' cities. That would almost necessitate using Musketmen.

Musketmen also have very flexible promotions. CR is nice, but a Drill-promoted Musketman can also serve as a fine city defender once the dust settles. If you're using siege as your primary damage-dealer, then drill is as good as CR anyway, and in some cases better.

Agreed, against Xbows and as defenders, muskets > Maces.

And I love the drill promo aswell, the problem about it is that CR kicks in from promo 1, whereas you need DIII or IV to be worth it compared to combat, IMHO.

 

[mike p]

I chose "Other."

Generally I use muskets when I discover Gunpowder. They're an adequate unit for garrisons, and siege escorts, and have no strong counter unit. Not the most exciting unit in the game, but I don't agree they are underpowered or something.

 

[Diamondeye]

Generally I use muskets when I discover Gunpowder.

If only quotes were allowed in sigs

Sorry , just a very funny comment...

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

while I think musketmen could be a bit stronger (like str 10 instead of 9)

I still build them because they have no counter from melee units and are stronger then all of them (except knights)

 

[peter450]

What musketmen could use most is a upgrade path from a prev unit, all the units in the game, upgrade too or upgrade from somthing else unless there ancient era i'e the first units or late modern era the last of there line, muskets just appear in the middle of the game with no upgrade from a prev unit? they would be used more if there was also the option to upgrade say a longbow or crossbow to them, since musketmen effectively take over the roles of these 2 units

 

[dragodon64]

you mean in game or RL? Cuz muskets certainly do NOT take the role of long/crossbows in the game.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

With Trebuchets and Pikes, they are a reasonable force.. Trebuchets to weaken city units, Pike to protect against horses, and Muskets for everything else (Stack Defense, Elimination of weakened City garrison units, and Garrisoning taken cities)

All of the other possible reasons just make them better.

And muskets Do take over the role of Long/Crossbows... they are better or equal to those units in all of their roles (City Defense/Attacking Melee... vulnerable to Horses)

They are more Expensive than Bows but they are Better.

Probably what would be best for upgrade paths is
Pre-Gunpowder units upgrade to Muskets OR Grenadiers, Muskets upgrade to Rifles

so as soon as you got Grenadiers OR Rifles, pre-gunpowder units would be totally obsolete, and you could upgrade them to Muskets.

 

[PotatoSamurai]

Muskets aren't worth the effort as a traditional unit. They're expensive, have no abilities, etc etc.

However, they make passable defenders and are a good stepping stone to Rifles, especially if you've got the cash to bump them :3

I agree with increasing their strength to 10. Alternatively, they could use a vs. pre-Renaissance bonus. Like, maybe +50% vs. melee, +25% vs. archery.

 

[Angst]

First point, raw macemen and raw muskets, muskets are 1 better, not 0.2 (Maces do not inherit 10% against cities).
With one promotion (Combat for musket, CR for Mace), Muskets have .3 more than maces. With 2 promotions, maces have .8 more than Muskets.



But fewer are needed because they are more effective, see above statement. Also, maces are cheaper than muskets...?

Other boost
-And as someone mentioned before, there is no 'anti-musket' unit. There's an anti-mace, anti-crossbow (Well, sorta), anti-knight, and so on. But a musket keeps his 9 completely and cannot directly be countered.

 

[bardolph]

you mean in game or RL? Cuz muskets certainly do NOT take the role of long/crossbows in the game.

If the role is "city defender," they most certainly can. STR 9 is a huge step up from STR 6, and the +25% city defense of longbows doesn't even come close for making up that gap.

If you have a huge stack of macemen bearing down on your civ, drafting a stack of musketmen should stop them cold.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

I personally like Muskets . Why not?

No real weakness and they are adjustable and can serve any purpose with a decent str 9 .
I make it a point to get gunpowder ASAP . Usually I begin a nice invasion while on the way to discovering gunpowder . While my maces have done a lot of grunt work backing them up with muskets is just really f-ing nice .

Muskets also make very good city garrisoners of conquered cities while on the destruction/domination path .

I think they are a good unit .

 

[dragodon64]

Personally, I think muskets should stay the same strength, but get a +25% bonus against all melee and archery. This would make their impact greater but they would still be small fry to later units. A 10 increase in cost may be necessary, though.

 

[Desert-Fox]

If you have no metal, then you need them until you get riflemen...

 

[NYHunter]

It always depends on the situation. Musketman can be very valuable if you know how to use them properly.

 

[Diamondeye]

Thanks for all the replies - I usually find that the main reason why I do not wage war around muskets is;
1) Their strength when attacking compared to lbows defending.
2) Their time of arrival, for me it is usually between two wars or on my way to rifles and/or communism.

I played a game as France a week ago, and I didn't get to use my muskets - I find the french UU to be situational and subpar compared to the other two - which is why I forgot them in the poll. (Link to my game as France in sig)

 

[dragodon64]

Musketeers are decent for protecting knights from pikes, or if you don't have horses, serving as your fast moving, pillaging units.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Musketmen do better than Macemen against Axemen.

 

[GoodGame]

I'd second only using them when they're your UU, you are protective, or you have a highly serious tech lead. They aren't a particularly good counter for knights, and only moderately better than maces/praets for attacking (who've probably earned a stack of promotions themselves by the time muskets are available). This can happen even if you have a strong lead in the tech race, since there is kind of a lot of techs between mace/kinghts and musket, making it a better option to beeline to grenadiers for a truely crushing unit.

The only other use is if you have motley crew of older garrison units that aren't especially promoted / worth upgrading, then I might make a musket per city for enhanced security.