When playing Romans? When do you build military infrastructure?

[Tijgersag]

Question...

If you play a civilization like the Persians, Greeks or Romans that have an ancient unique unit intended for early conquest.

When do you start to build your military infrastructure? Right from the start, around 2000 BC, or later?

Also:

Does it mean you forsake all wonder building?

If not, how many wonders can you afford to build and still be able to have a full size army by roughly 300 BC (roughly 100 turns) on a standard game.


NB: I regularly play against a human opponent in a LAN-GAME, so let's asume the AI is superintelligent and something of a genius when it comes to computergames.

 

[fugazi]

I rarely if ever build barracks and the likes. I've stacked barracks, armory and something else once in my capital but then I got attacked and missed out on the two units I could have had extra xD

 

[delra]

On higher difficulties you want to settle two new production cities very soon and typically you want those placed near horses. Build a settler when your capital hits 3 population (sometimes 4 on food-rich locations) and at the same time purchase another settler with the cash you've saved up killing barbarians and selling open borders to AI. Settle two good production cities, build useful wonders in the capital if you think you have a shot at them (Oracle...), at the same time other cities spit out enough horsemen to conquer whoever is closest (typically 3-4).

 

[Jamuka]

I don't think you need to build barracks and such at the beginning of the game because your units can get 30 XP easily from killing barbarians. Once barbarians are gone, then barracks, maybe.

 

[Bibor]

Does it mean you forsake all wonder building?

If you have 3 cities and make 3 barracks that means every melee unit you get out of that city will have +15 experience (15XP equals 3 to 4 melee fights) and you also unlock the Heroic epic, which is a cheap wonder grating your units 15% more strength if built in that city.

One can always say ROFL-LOL-KILL-BARBS, but for this tiny fact that ranged units get only 2 XP per attack, which means barracks give them a bonus equalling 7.5 attacks and an Armory will bring that to a grand total of 15 attacks worth of experience.

A fresh Legionnaire from a Heroic Epic city with Barracks+Armory is worth 1.5 ordinary Legionnaires (30XP for 2 promos: I usually take Drill I and Cover I as well as 15% more strength), because his chances of survival are much higher.

I'd rather pay that that GPT for upkeep of one or two armories than to pay hefty ukpeep for a semi-proffessional army.

 

[AriochIV]

If you have one city that seems to be building most of your units, then I can see it being worth it to build one or two military structures there when you have a spare moment. But given the high cost and the limited number of units you can build, it just doesn't seem a very good investment to build them in more than one or two cities, and pehaps not even then.

There's also an argument to be made that a unit without promotions is sometimes very desirable, since it can earn instant-heal promotions more quickly.

 

[Bibor]

If you have one city that seems to be building most of your units, then I can see it being worth it to build one or two military structures there when you have a spare moment. But given the high cost and the limited number of units you can build, it just doesn't seem a very good investment to build them in more than one or two cities, and pehaps not even then.

There's also an argument to be made that a unit without promotions is sometimes very desirable, since it can earn instant-heal promotions more quickly.

Well, it's obviously faster to build the Heroic Epic if you have, say, two cities rather than five. It's not a very expensive wonder (cheap, really) and building barracks in two and an armory in one of your cities is a good long-term investment. Five GPT for +1 culture (from HE) and very experienced units is a really good thing. And you don't have to upgrade them immediately, you can keep the promos for healing.

Gold-bought units also get the extra EXP.

 

[UncleJJ]

I do build barracks but try to delay it if there are plenty of barbs around. Barbs are a good source of GG points and I often get 2 great generals just by carefully hunting barbs with troops that have less than 30 exp. That includes archers and triremes which only pick up 2 exp per attack and each time they are attacked by barb archers. Troops built with barracks can only get 15 GG points from the barbs. City states often give me a mission to clear out some barbs and that's another reason to keep a few around, free exp and free influence.

However, if you're in a serious war in the late game then having at least one city with barracks and armoury is very useful to get 2 promotions on new troops. Try to use that city to buy your troops.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

If you have 3 cities and make 3 barracks that means every melee unit you get out of that city will have +15 experience (15XP equals 3 to 4 melee fights) and you also unlock the Heroic epic, which is a cheap wonder grating your units 15% more strength if built in that city.

One can always say ROFL-LOL-KILL-BARBS, but for this tiny fact that ranged units get only 2 XP per attack, which means barracks give them a bonus equalling 7.5 attacks and an Armory will bring that to a grand total of 15 attacks worth of experience.

A fresh Legionnaire from a Heroic Epic city with Barracks+Armory is worth 1.5 ordinary Legionnaires (30XP for 2 promos: I usually take Drill I and Cover I as well as 15% more strength), because his chances of survival are much higher.

I'd rather pay that that GPT for upkeep of one or two armories than to pay hefty ukpeep for a semi-proffessional army.

This line of thinking would be very good if you had to produce units continuously throughout the game. But given that you can plow through classic era with about 4 units, the barrack is a very questionable building since it can screw up your unit production timing.

Rushing heroic epic on the other hand sounds interesting because it offers that nice bonus that you cannot get any other way, and as game progresses it just gets more and more annoying to make sure that you have barracks in all cities. I actually never built heroic epic so far because of, so I might try rushing for heroic epic and see how that works with early war timing.

 

[vendur]

I think if I were to play rome on deity, I'd stay with one city until I had built a heroic epic. The ballista has a base attack of 18, with the 15% increase its attack to over 20. The trebuchet, which takes way, way longer to get via research has only 20 attack, and it costs twice as much. after I'd probably build/buy at least 2 fairly quickly and during that time I would have built a city right next to an an AI's civilization. Invariably this will trigger a war without costing you any reputation loss. Expand into the vacumm between that city next to his territory and your home base while you slaughter them over time with your brutal ballistas.

 

[Lyoncet]

When playing as Rome? Obviously, play as the Romans do.

...

*smashes head into keyboard in vain attempt to atone for awful joke*

 

[Tijgersag]

On higher difficulties you want to settle two new production cities very soon and typically you want those placed near horses. Build a settler when your capital hits 3 population (sometimes 4 on food-rich locations) and at the same time purchase another settler with the cash you've saved up killing barbarians and selling open borders to AI. Settle two good production cities, build useful wonders in the capital if you think you have a shot at them (Oracle...), at the same time other cities spit out enough horsemen to conquer whoever is closest (typically 3-4).

I have a few questions about this strategy..

Just to be sure.. what's qualifies in your book as a "production city"? How many hills?

How do you get the computer to pay for open borders? I can't even get them for free and I've tried selling them for 10 and they still won't bite.

Do you send escorts with those settlers? or just build and hope they don't get killed?

Not much luck yet overall.. It's hard to figure out what you can leave out without damaging yourself too much in the long run.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Barracks are pretty cheap buildings. Both from hammer and maintenance cost.
So they actually do pay off if city will build several war units from it.

Other military buildings not so much. Maybe Armory in late game, when it costs 1/2 of modern unit production (and unit maintenance costs are like 5-6gp/turn).

Of course, if city will be dedicated unit producer for a long time, then even more expensive buildings can pay off.

 

[Bibor]

I have a few questions about this strategy..

Just to be sure.. what's qualifies in your book as a "production city"? How many hills?

How do you get the computer to pay for open borders? I can't even get them for free and I've tried selling them for 10 and they still won't bite.

Do you send escorts with those settlers? or just build and hope they don't get killed?

Not much luck yet overall.. It's hard to figure out what you can leave out without damaging yourself too much in the long run.

A production city is a city that works primarily strategic resources, lumbermills and mines (and farms) compared to a commerce city that works trade posts and luxury resources. The actual number of hammers is irrelevant, but obviously every hammer city will be stronger in production then a commerce city (except if it happens to have 3-4 gold/silver/gem mines or the like).

 

[Zhahz]

Sadly, the AI is so bad at fighting that I see no point in military buildings that give xp. I build them sometimes but they're hardly necessary. I'd rather not pay the maint and save the gold to upgrade promoted units later. Hopefully some day the tactial combat AI is improved to make it a little more necessary to focus on being militaristic to conquest.

If I really want heavily promoted units I go honor SPs - the double xp policy is vastly superior to any build or combo of buildings. It's disgustingly amusing to get so much xp.

But, I can go full on conquest mode with no barracks and no honor tree just fine...it's almost better to focus on trees that'll give you more happiness instead because the xp/level of your troops isn't what holds you back, it's the happiness cap.

As for when to go military...if you intend to conquest and are playing a civ with an early UU that makes for sick conquest, you should probably go for it as quickly as possible to enjoy that advantage as long as possible.