When to use Liberty?

[defendurname]

Just wondering when and what kind of victory requires Liberty? Culture and science are better as tradition with 4 cities no? And same for all the other victory conditions?

I'm just curious about trying a new strategy since I always go tall in Prince and King and have no problems. I want to try going wide with Liberty but I dont see a reason to?

Sorry if I sound like a noob but im just curious

 

[Tre]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but liberty is just honestly too op right now. At 4 cities, it already matches culture from tradition or even beats it I think. Honestly, their both alright and have their own benefits, but the golden age/free worker/free settler/free great person is honestly unbeatable right now. If you want to use tradition though, Tabarnak has a great post about a tradition 4 city opening. Check it out!

 

[Matthew.]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but liberty is just honestly too op right now

Tradition has more potential for happiness in the beginning phase. Consider a capital with a pop. of 16 by 1AD has a happiness bonus of 9 (Half + 1 for over 10) To match that with Liberty you'd need 9 cities by 1AD, which is quite the feat, especially considering each additional city adds base unhappiness cost.

To answer the OP, I go with Liberty when the starting area around me is fairly open with a good number of unique luxuries. The start tends to be slower (as far as science/gold/NC breakpoints, not number of cities) but by the middle of the game population will boom and more than make up for it. Check out the policy comparison threads; most seem to rate both trees as equal in power and use.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Can you reach a good science victory with Tradition? Yes. Liberty? Yes. Is one "better"? Perhaps, but at the end of the day it is a game created for entertainment. Liberty can be great fun and I suggest playing around with it.

 

[chazzycat]

i will generally go with liberty only if i see myself founding 8 or more cities.

tradition is too good for growth, which is so important early in the game. if you're not spamming a lot of cities, it's hard for liberty to make up for that.

But the ICS-type playstyle did get a pretty big boost with religion, so it certainly has its uses.

 

[defendurname]

i will generally go with liberty only if i see myself founding 8 or more cities.

tradition is too good for growth, which is so important early in the game. if you're not spamming a lot of cities, it's hard for liberty to make up for that.

But the ICS-type playstyle did get a pretty big boost with religion, so it certainly has its uses.

What kind of victory do u go for if u found 8 cities or more? Does that give you a faster science/culture victory than 4 cities + tradition?

 

[Matthew.]

Culture, no. Science is heavily linked to population though, and you can get more raw population by going wide than going tall. I don't know about those crazy games in the T200 range, but both Tradition and Liberty can get T250 science wins easy.

I also find Liberty better for domination, since those games tend to have quite a number of cities by the end.

 

[Tre]

Another thing that some people are overlooking is the fact that even if you stay small, let's say 4 cities and going for culture, chances are that you will most likely unlock both full tradition and full liberty. So now, the question is just really in what order, and again, a free settler/great person/worker/golden age is really just too good not too start off with. Tradition could definetly be a 2nd or probably 3rd choice, because it syncs well with getting free museum (4 free culture building). Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[chazzycat]

What kind of victory do u go for if u found 8 cities or more? Does that give you a faster science/culture victory than 4 cities + tradition?

I like diplo a lot for wide empires. It's satisfying for me to ally every CS on the map, and that's easier with a large empire. It puts you in great position to win a lot of CS quests, and you tend to rack up a lot of gold through trade routes, if you can keep your cities growing.

Tradition+puppets can accomplish the same thing though, so I'd say the ideal approach in any given circumstance is based mostly on the map.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but liberty is just honestly too op right now. At 4 cities, it already matches culture from tradition or even beats it I think. Honestly, their both alright and have their own benefits, but the golden age/free worker/free settler/free great person is honestly unbeatable right now. If you want to use tradition though, Tabarnak has a great post about a tradition 4 city opening. Check it out!

You're wrong. Unless you're talking about vanilla. Then you're right.

I like Liberty. For mostly peaceful game which naturally means not too many cities, Tradition is unbeatable. But when you go for massive conquest, it still can be viable, although personally I prefer Liberty. Meritocracy and Representation > huge core cities and limited annexing options.
Science and diplo can be achieved through either wide or tall, so it's more the matter of a playstyle. Culture usually requires both.

 

[ixias]

Like Matthew said, I generally go liberty if I'm planning on settling 6+ cities of my own due to open space and numerous luxuries or if I'm planning on going the domination route. If I'm someone like the Mayans, France, or Arabia I go Liberty 95% of the time (unless I have a TERRIBLE starting area).

I'm almost always a tall player, but I wouldn't say one is inherently better than the other. It all depends on your Civ, the map size/type, opposing AI, etc.

 

[Tachii]

For diplomacy and dominant victories I choose Liberty almost all the time. I like having a puppet empire better than 4 tall cities. Especially for domination games the happiness bonuses from liberty helps a lot, and I don't really need overgrowth in my non-puppet cities.

 

[Buccaneer]

I like having a puppet empire better than 4 tall cities.

Having one does not preclude the other. I would assume that most Tall players have a puppet empire (except at OCC). I have always liked to keep my empire at 3-5 cities no matter what victory condition - science, diplomacy, domination all work well with a Tall/Puppet strategy on Immortal and of course, cultural.

 

[Tabarnak]

I use Liberty when :

-I play a fast Dom. game at emperor or below
-I rush for the GL(getting free worker from policy while i build a granary before starting the GL), mainly in mp
-I have a big land to settle(problem is that i can do the same with Tradition, so i often end with Trad anyway), but i need to settle them all very fast before the NC. But most of the time i will do a 3-4 cities NC then extra cities(with both trees)
-I want Petra badly for a non-capital city and know that this wonder might disappear fast, then the Liberty finisher is the best

Main problem of Liberty is that gpt generation is harder to get because you don't get any free buildings and your population grows slower. The AI(and cs) can provide you workers, gold and luxuries so the Liberty tree loses his appeal through turns while Tradition is getting stronger.

More you play a high level, more Tradition is powerful. Liberty has his place, but way more less than vanilla.