Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Ermak-, Dec 28, 2010.
Nice. Swap the venison with elk instead and you got a 5 star there.
You and I might be the only ones
HOI3 had some significant flaws, and one some level -- it was back to the old, old HOI1 days of Paradox releasing games with some really significant bugs (you couldn't move your fleets out of port on the initial release).
I personally like HOI3 because I think it does an outstanding job of representing command hierarchy/OOB and I actually LIKE the fact that supply is a really, really, difficult thing to manage. I always felt like the big flaw in Hoi2 -- as much as I love it -- was that it was completely unrealistic that I could simultaneously be launching Barbarossa, Sea Lion, AND invading the US at the same time... All you had to do was stockpile supplies and fuel - and have the forces.
I think HOI3 does a much, much better job of putting the brakes on that because one simply could not logistically handle multiple, far-reaching operations like that.
A lot of the complaints about Hoi3 are that logistics are such a nightmare, and what's more - a "hidden" nightmare (in that you cannot really get a handle on why they're so hard and thus, 'solve' them).
I think that's a GOOD thing because logistics for armed forces ARE a nightmare and they often DO fall apart for unsolvable reasons.
Anyway... just my 2 cents on Hoi3, since I think it far too often gets a bad rep.
Tough to find good elk here in Philly. there's a place in the Italian market that has it from time to time, but I find venison more easily sourced. I did do something similar with elk filet served with a green-peppercorn madeira sauce and a parsnip-potato mash on the side. THAT was choice. Ridiculously easy to make, too, once you had all the materials.
But I digress/derail.
I haven't tried HoI, but I would figure logistics are a devil to manage simply because they require the perfect harmony of so many individual parts (including your enemy's response, the weather, and dumbass luck) to go "according to plan." I actually like the notion that logistics are hard to "solve."
If the Great Powers couldn't manage it with their pre-war plans in WW1, where they spent years trying to come up with plans for mobilization and such, only to see them all collapse when the war finally came, why should a group of gamers expect to pull it off? Plus, to me, that brings out the REAL strategists -- the people who can ADAPT to their circumstances and still do well, rather than simply follow a rote formula for victory.
Very interesting thread! I've made a list of games to check out, starting with EU3.
But if you're a Civ player who enjoys warmongering, I would recommend the Strategic Command series of wargames, designed by game developer Hubert Cater. Here's link to the latest in the series.
These games are tactically intricate, but also feature grand strategy play, especially in how you plan and allocate production capacity and research for upcoming campaigns. The two aspects work together as well as I've seen in any wargame. The diplomatic function is nominal, but the game scenarios have built in diplomatic constraints that affect decision making in interesting way. Graphics are pedestian, but the UI is a good one, and the 'feel' of the game, especially in simulating the sweep and drama of the WWII Russian Campaign, is the best wargaming experience I've had, bar none.
Just took a glance at the games shelf next to me...
Master of Orion series (2 is better than 3, 1's too old imo)
Gal Civ is good
Heroes of Might and Magic... old ones are better than the new ones imo.
Civ series, including smac and ctp: Civ 4 + BtS... still the best. Get RoM or RoM/AND and FFH mods and it even counts as 3 different games, probably bronze, silver and gold in best TBS games ever.
Does monopoly count?
I'm going to drop Civ V into a dark and dusty bottom drawer of my desk for 6 months and wait and see if some AMAZING patch comes out of the blue to rescue the game...
I'm thinking of trying HOI 3, but I've heard that it's just as bugged as Civ V, anyone knows if this is true?
Until I find a new game worth playing I'm going old school, as in REALLY old school:
DUNE 2 with Dosbox!
Settlers 2 (10th Anniversary/Next Generation) is worth looking at. It's an empire builder where you focus mostly on the economy - military is strategic and indirect and depends heavily on your economic strength
If it hasn't been mentioned--I haven't read every post--Anno 1404 (AKA Dawn of Discovery) is a lot of fun. City builder with production chains, a decent single-player campaign, and charming visuals. Pace is quite relaxed so it's closer to a TBS than a clickfest RTS.
The game is quite good by now. I would strongly recommand playing it with the expansion Semper Fi. The XP fixes a lot of issues. The learning curve is quite steep if you are not familiar with Paradox games.
A new expansion for HOI3 was announced yesterday. The game will continue to improve
I know a lot of people aren't fans of Steam but since so many people recommended the game I'm buying Europa Universalis III Complete today - I mentioned Steam because it is on sale for $4.00 on Steam this week. It actually isn't "Complete" though - the next expansion is another $2.00 and then the new one is $19.99 which I'm guessing is the price anywhere. Still I was pretty impressed with $4 so downloading that right now and if I like it I'll get Heir to the Throne expansion for $2 before the sale is over.
It's your money, but I'd recommend paying that extra $2 to get a better experience. HTTT adds a lot to the game. Paradox expansions don't add content to the game, they add features instead. This really changes the experience.
I ended up buying them both - installed them last night and wow... you guys who said it was complicated weren't kidding but it seems like it is going to be a lot of fun once I get everything figured out. I like having a challenge again... CivIV was for me but CivV just makes me want to go take a nap so hopefully EU3 will have me playing long past bedtime for a while to come.
Register your game over at the Paradox forums and then there is a very good Strategy Guide that you can then download for free.
Yeah, definitely pick up Heir to the Throne. It's WELL worth it. Adds a lot more depth to the game.
Definitely get Heir to the Throne, and all the other expansions. They augment the original game a great deal.
I've dedicated this entire weekend to learning how to play EU3 and still feel pretty lost. It is an amazing game and the people on the Paradox forum are extremely nice and helpful so I recommend it but only if you have a lot of time to spend figuring it out.
Curious for those of you who play those games - is King Arthur or Majesty as complex? I think I might like either of those and maybe starting with an easier game and working my way up to EU3 might work better for me but I don't want to buy another one unless I know it is actually going to be easier to learn.
I think I'm off for a few hours of King's Bounty or Torchlight - I need something I can mindlessly click after this weekend of EU3!
I only just recently got into EU3 as well. I think it's a bit easier if you learn one major game mechanic at a time and don't try to do too much at a time. For example I started figuring out the economic / merchants / center of trade system first, playing a peaceful game as Holland and basing my economy almost purely off merchants. Once I got the hang of that I learnt about the colonising aspects of the game, and then towards the end I figured out how battles/wars work.
It took plenty of manual/guide consulting but was quite fun. One mechanic at a time and it won't be too overwhelming.
As for comparing to Majesty - isn't that the RTS where you don't directly control your heroes/troops? That was a pretty amusing game for about 10 hours, which was pretty easy to learn, which I'd recommend you try if you can get it for cheap, but I doubt it'll hold your attention in the long term.
I've heard good things about a fantasy mod for cIV called Master of Mana.
I am going to download it now. It looks pretty cool.
Not turn based, but otherwise Anno 1404 is somewhat close to what Civ is. A solid game.
EU Rome Gold, whatever the final "Complete" version was, is more-or-less the same system as EU, but without all the complications. It is also a pretty challenging game, but not nearly as complex IIRC. Been a year or more since I played either of those.
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