Where is Victoria?

[Bast]

Now I'm going to go on and on about this. BUT I'm reading the manual and it says that the Unique trait is based on the leader's "special ability".

"Sun never sets" is the unique assigned to Elizabeth. I wouldn't normally argue about this but if anyone should have that unique ability attached to, it's Victoria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_empire_on_which_the_sun_never_sets

Civ IV took a massive step forward in recognizing Victoria but now it's just taken a step back.

I demand an answer.

 

[stealth_nsk]

There are no leader abilities, just civ.

 

[Delgar]

@Bast: go mod it in if you want it

 

[Maniacal]

As much of a fan of the Victorian Age as I am, Elizabeth is more attractive than Victoria.

 

[bhavv]

Victoria = British Empire
Elizabeth = English Empire

Since the Civ is called England and not Britain, it is incorrect to have Victoria as its leader.

 

[Robovski]

Victoria wasn't always a greiving widow, she was a monarch for more than 50 years, and loads more active when Albert was still alive.

 

[moopoo]

@Bast: go mod it in if you want it

definitely. i'd love a victoria mod

 

[Gunship_Down]

Civ IV took a massive step forward in recognizing Victoria but now it's just taken a step back.

Victoria was just a puppet ruler, a constitutional monarch, much like the European monarchs are today. She never actually did anything special besides being the face of a nation going through a Golden Age thanks to the good management of Parliament.

And then her husband died and she spent all her days moping in a room. Blah.

Elizabeth I, on the other hand, was a true monarch with actual power. So I think they made the right decision here. She is easier on the eyes as well.

 

[Bast]

Victoria = British Empire
Elizabeth = English Empire

Since the Civ is called England and not Britain, it is incorrect to have Victoria as its leader.

England is part of Britain. Victoria still lived and spent most of her life in England. That's not why Elizabeth was chosen.

If the unique trait is meant to be a trait of the leader, then Victoria is more correct as England didn't even establish a permanent colony in the Americas during Elizabeth's reign.

 

[Robovski]

Personally I think Churchill would be more deserving than Victoria (but way less appealing to have in my Diplo screen), but we seem to be avoiding individuals from the 20th century.

 

[Maniacal]

Prince Albert, before his death, was very active in reforming/improving various parts of Britain, I'm too tired to remember what right now though.

 

[Plotinus]

We are not having the argument about Queen Victoria again.

You want Victoria as a leader, then fine, make a mod for her.

You want to argue about whether Victoria was the most powerful and important person who ever lived - again - fine, go and make a thread in the History forum and try to produce evidence for the claim.

But I don't think the Civ V general discussions forum is the place for either of these.

 

[bhavv]

England is part of Britain. Victoria still lived and spent most of her life in England. That's not why Elizabeth was chosen.

If the unique trait is meant to be a trait of the leader, then Victoria is more correct as England didn't even establish a permanent colony in the Americas during Elizabeth's reign.

The unique trait is +2 movement points for naval units. This is very appropriate for Elizabeth I as well as she also had a powerful navy and beat the Spanish at sea.

I would agree though after reading behind what they called it, that it should maybe have a different name, as 'sun never sets' is about having colonies across the world, not just a faster navy.

 

[bhavv]

but we seem to be avoiding individuals from the 20th century.

Except for Gandhi

 

[Bast]

Victoria was just a puppet ruler, a constitutional monarch, much like the European monarchs are today. She never actually did anything special besides being the face of a nation going through a Golden Age thanks to the good management of Parliament.

And then her husband died and she spent all her days moping in a room. Blah.

Elizabeth I, on the other hand, was a true monarch with actual power. So I think they made the right decision here. She is easier on the eyes as well.

Please educate yourself on where Victoria took the country from 1837 to her death in 1901. If you don't want to give her credit for everything that's fine but to say that she did "nothing" is absolutely ludicrous.

We are not having the argument about Queen Victoria again.

You want Victoria as a leader, then fine, make a mod for her.

You want to argue about whether Victoria was the most powerful and important person who ever lived - again - fine, go and make a thread in the History forum and try to produce evidence for the claim.

But I don't think the Civ V general discussions forum is the place for either of these.

No we are not. Because I've given you facts before and you cannot accept it. But here I'm not arguing about her being the most powerful and important. I'm just arguing that given the trait is called "sun never sets" and given that the trait is about a powerful navy and implies a nation with colonies all over the world, Victoria is a much more appropriate leader than Elizabeth.

The unique trait is +2 movement points for naval units. This is very appropriate for Elizabeth I as well as she also had a powerful navy and beat the Spanish at sea.

I would agree though after reading behind what they called it, that it should maybe have a different name, as 'sun never sets' is about having colonies across the world, not just a faster navy.

See above. I was fine with Elizabeth until I read the manual. It's just not right. It's like having "Achaemenid legacy" as a trait but having a non-Achaemenid leader for Persia. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Robovski]

Except for Gandhi

Now how in the world did I ever forget Ghandi! He's been the worst warmonger AI to be stuck next to since back in Civ 1. "I am Ghandi, my words are backed by nuclear weapons..."

Perhaps I shouls say prominent individuals from a major 20th Century conflict? Some kind of global fracas?

 

[Olleus]

Now I'm going to go on and on about this. BUT I'm reading the manual and it says that the Unique trait is based on the leader's "special ability".

"Sun never sets" is the unique assigned to Elizabeth. I wouldn't normally argue about this but if anyone should have that unique ability attached to, it's Victoria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_empire_on_which_the_sun_never_sets

Civ IV took a massive step forward in recognizing Victoria but now it's just taken a step back.

I demand an answer.

Lol, what makes you think you have the right to demand anything from anyone on the internet???


The unique ability is to do with the Civ, not the leader. Otherwise explain how the Ancient Regime is to do with Napoleon . If anything the UUs/UB, UA and leader are chosen to represent the whole time span of the civilization and not focus on any one of them. Look at Germany for a start. Or india.


And Victoria didn't have any real power anyway, by the time of her Reign Parliament government pretty much independently of her. It would be like making Elizabeth II a leader.

 

[TM Moot]

Victoria = British Empire
Elizabeth = English Empire

Since the Civ is called England and not Britain, it is incorrect to have Victoria as its leader.

Victoria = British Empire
Elizabeth = English KINGDOM (QUEENDOM!?!)

without looking it up (at work!) i don't recall there being much of an Empire in Lizzy's day

but i agree totally that vicky is a BRITISH ruler

 

[bhavv]

A monarchy with an emperor as head of state is also an Empire

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Bah, everybody was just riding off of Richard's coattails! Hail the Lionheart!!!

And btw, England has been an empire since the 1300's. Centuries before Elizabeth. You'd better not say that the Welsh and Scots were not their own kingdom or you might wind up with some angry kilt-wearing folks on the forum here!

That said, I think this question comes down to who would you like captaining the ship. The captain that took you through the most dangerous waters or the captain that looked good standing at the helm when the wind was at your back and the seas were calm...