Where's Adolf?

[panzerboy]

Hey all,

First off, I'm not a nazi. Has anyone made a Hitler mod for leader of Germany with little swastika banners for the units? I understand why they did'nt make it in the game (Sid being Jewish and problems marketing nazi stuff in Germany and Austria) But really, all sensitivities aside, Adolf was the greatest expansionist Germany ever had and made (arguably) the greatest war machine the world has ever seen!

Just curious,

Panzerboy

 

[Kamamura]

I think Mongols were much more successful in their time.

 

[Thedrin]

Maybe but he wasn't the greatest leader. Bismarck and Frederick certainly outclass him on that criteria and surely greatness is the one characteristic which should count towards which leaders to include.

I have no problem with Hitler being in the game on merit. But Germany had better leaders so Hitler doesn't get in.

Maybe Hitler could be a the poster boy for rapid expansion in CivIV - exapnd to fast and your empire collapses.

 

[Karl Townsend]

yea i would like to beat **** chins ass into the ground

 

[Indiana]

Personally I think they didnt put him in because it wasnt "politically correct" and affraid of "offending" someone.

If you look at how Hilter came to power and how he went about winning the hearts and minds of the Germans, he did much better than most in history. Over all, Hilter only lost WW2 because he tried to be a general rather than letting his generals do it. The way he wanted to do it was sound, but his military strategy as leader was horrible.

*no no....I am not pro Hilter or anything, just stating facts*

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Jews just hold too much political power nowadays, so, of course, no nazi stuff can be included

At least Civ4 is modable

 

[Yooka]

I agree with the general consenus of the posters in this thread. I would imagine someone has done Nazi's justice (wow, those words have a few different meanings when put together, eh?) in the Customization forum.

 

[Head Serf]

Hitler was in my opinion one of the worst leaders for the fate of Germany ever! Have none of you ever read about what happened after the war thanks to Hitler? Thanks to his war, Germany was divided for 40 years, one half being controlled by the communists he hated. Germany faced years of reconstruction, and lost it's place in gloabal politics for decades! Hitler made no lasting improvements for Germany. Saying he is better than Bismarck is absolute crap! Otto van Bismarck united the german states together and safely expanded Germany into parts of France, Poland, and Austria. Hitler should not be included at all as a German leader, even Wilhelm II did a better job!

 

[Yooka]

Hitler was in my opinion one of the worst leaders for the fate of Germany ever....

By that logic, a man who gambles, wins the World Series of Poker, and then blows all his money on crap is a bad gambler. What Hitler did when he was in power was impressive. The man held his own against pretty much every other industrialized nation simultaneously. He did expand his empire. But he lost. And he betrayed his people (in a way, relating back to what you said). Again, he's not the greatest leader, and it's understood why he's regarded as one of the lowest human beings to ever influence history. But he couldn't have done what he did without being a helluva leader.

 

[masterinhope]

Could anyone back up their comments that he wasn't the greatest leader, I mean how can you top conquering near all of Europe....?

 

[He-Who-Hunts]

Hitler was not a "helluva Leader" he was a Helluva lier.

Its easy to accumulate a large fortune if you lie... Just keep borrowing and promiseing and eventually you'l have everyhing you want. But in the end when it comes time to pay, a lier will fall.

Also, in terms of military and goverment he was horrible, in fact, if it hadnt of been for Hitler, Germany probably would have won the war. His paranoia allowed the allies to sit on normandy when they were most vonurable, and it opened a second front in Russia.

Hitler was just an angry fool. It just so happened that he was leading a majority of angry fools.

 

[Indiana]

Hitler was in my opinion one of the worst leaders for the fate of Germany ever! Have none of you ever read about what happened after the war thanks to Hitler? Thanks to his war, Germany was divided for 40 years, one half being controlled by the communists he hated. Germany faced years of reconstruction, and lost it's place in gloabal politics for decades! Hitler made no lasting improvements for Germany. Saying he is better than Bismarck is absolute crap! Otto van Bismarck united the german states together and safely expanded Germany into parts of France, Poland, and Austria. Hitler should not be included at all as a German leader, even Wilhelm II did a better job!

Fate of Germany? Well ya...I think we all would agree.

I think what we are talking about is not what the result was in the end but how he did it along the way in achieving his goals. (i.e. he won the hearts and minds of the people, brought Germany out of the worse economic depression in history after WW1, expanded the nation, made it one of the most power nations in the world at the time).

Otto van Bismarck united the german states together and safely expanded Germany into parts of France, Poland, and Austria.

So did Hitler....Hitler just didnt stop there though.

Even though Hitler failed in the end, he did make one of the most impressionable marks in History. Just because he failed over all doesnt make it any less so. It is always fun to have the option of playing as him or against him in games....as many other leaders around the world and in History.
(Hearts of Iron 1 and 2 is a good example).

We could go on and on and even argue that AB Lincoln was in the Previous Civ game why not this one? or why the USA is in Civilization at all.

Why? It is a game made in the US, made not to politically upset people (read the religious section in the Civ4 Manual) and most of all....it's a freakin GAME.

 

[Palantir30]

Hi, use the search button. There are already at least four threads of this exact subject that go on for over a dozen pages. You might consider using one of those if you want to rehash this ancient, pointless argument.

If you want Uncle Adolf, mod him in.

 

[panzerboy]

Hitler had many terrible qualities, but one cannot argue with the size of the civ he created, not the power of the armed forces he marshalled. His Reich was many times larger than Bismarcks or Frederick and his army conquered many more countries than any of the leaders you metioned. He broke the deadlock of trench warfare with his mobile blitzkrieg using panzers. These thing cannot be ignored, like him or lump him, he influenced the world in a VERY powerful way! The debate he can still ignite today, many decades after his regime is a telltale sign of his lasting influence on the world stage....The problem is he is widely demonized (rightly so) and since Joseph Stalin was also not included in the game it is keeping to form, no evil dictators allowed! Although Napoleon was no angel either.....

 

[Indiana]

Hitler was not a "helluva Leader" he was a Helluva lier.

You realize that ALL leaders around the world lie dont you....as well as all politicians. ...some to more of a degree than others.

No leader tells the true, then they wouldnt be leading. Leaders are in a position in telling their people what they want to hear and making them believe it. It is no different now than it was in the 1930's/40s or long before. As long as you can keep your peoples hearts and minds, you have the power to do what you want. Lies from leaders accomplish this....just look around. Heck, even the corporate world does this around the world...even children from birth do this...people learn the ability to lie to get what they want...some are just better at it than others.

Now...whether you believe what a person or Leader is telling you, is up to you. The world is all about who can promote the most propaganda for their way of thinking for their own ends….no more no less....lies and all.


...Just being realistic. The world isnt and never will be a utopia

 

[panzerboy]

Hi, use the search button. There are already at least four threads of this exact subject that go on for over a dozen pages. You might consider using one of those if you want to rehash this ancient, pointless argument.

If you want Uncle Adolf, mod him in.

Or I could just post it anew and be the center of attention!

Im a newbie so give me a break, just ignore it if your tired of the topic. It seems enough people are interested in it so.....

 

[Malleus]

Wasn't Stalin in CIV1 at least? He committed much more terrifying acts during his time. Not as incorrect politically though as Hitler, and he was not at least a great (military) leader.

 

[Danielos]

I wonder what fellow Germans would think about playing Germany with Hitler? He deserves to be in the game on his merits, but was too recent and too cruel to fit in a mainstream game like this. He is present in Hearts of Iron 2 though...

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don't think he deserves a place amoung history's greatest leaders. He bankrupted the german economy and was responsible for the deaths of millions of people. Germany suffered for a long time after the war.

If someone wants to make a WWII mod then they can make him the leader for that specific purpose but they could just as easily create someone else.

 

[He-Who-Hunts]

You realize that ALL leaders around the world lie dont you

That is not an argument. you cant say "well everyone else lies, that makes his lies reasonable." thats the most backward logic I ever heard.

Also, I don't wanna bring a political miss match into this, but can you honestly tell me that Hitlers political lies (AKA policy) are comparable to the lies most of us follow?

"Its all the Jews fault, exterminate them!"

"i'll lower taxes!"

Because despite popular belief, morals still have a place in government, which is ultimately why the Americans will fail in Iraq.

Now I realize that some of these other leaders arnt exactly fairy tale kings. but they had a dynamic set of abilities that allowed them to rule over many years prosperously... Hitler was just a great public speaker... In terms of statesmanship he bankrupted Germany, and in matters of military he ****ed over the Nazi fighting force with his paranoia and delusions of Grandeur...