Which starting techs would you prefer? 30 fractal starts inside.

[futurehermit]

I am going to post fractal (temp/med/stand) starts in this thread. Which starting techs would you prefer for each? I'll look to pool the results to see which two starting techs the community thinks provide the best start in most cases.

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[futurehermit]

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[BigTime]

1. Mining Agriculture

2. Mining Agriculture

3. Fishing Mining

4. Agriculture Mining

5. Agriculture Mining

6. Agriculture The Wheel

7. Agriculture Fishing

8. Agriculture Mining

9. Hunting Mining

10. Agriculture Mining

CONTINUED:

11. Agriculture Mining

12. Hunting Agriculture

13. Fishing Agriculture

14. Fishing Agriculture

15. Agriculture The Wheel

16. Agriculture Mining

17. Hunting Agriculture

18. Fishing Agriculture

19. Agriculture Mining

20. Fishing Agriculture

And for the last 10:

21. Agriculture Mining

22. Agriculture The Wheel

23. Agriculture Mining

24. Agriculture Mining

25. Agriculture The Wheel

26. Agriculture Mining

27. Agriculture Mining

28. Fishing Agriculture

29. Agriculture Mining

30. Agriculture Mining

Voted for Agri and Mining as they are usually the best generic techs to have. You will normally always have an agriculture resource or one on the agriculture line. Mining is useful to open up Masonry/BW early.

 

[futurehermit]

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[Agramon]

The poll seems to state the obvious to me. I'd like to hear the reasoning of those guys that chose something other than that.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Community consensus is probably Agriculture and Mining, although I think The Wheel is just as strong as a starting tech.

Fishing is obviously great for seafood starts, particularly ones with fish, and bad for everything else. I actually like Hunting for the starting scout, but it's subpar as a worker/military tech. Mysticism is pretty much junk; early religion is the only reason you'd want it as a starting tech, and that's normally a pretty weak and unreliable gambit once you get past a certain difficulty level. If you want Mysticism for monuments, you'd be better off teching it normally and having one of the other starting techs instead.

 

[madscientist]

I prefer food to all else, thus my favored two techs are agriculture and fishing. Even worse case I tech AH first and can build a pasture befor ethe worker is done.

Mining or wheel is next depedning on which start.

Hunting is not bad for the exploration of the free scout.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Like almost everyone else, I chose Agriculture and Mining because they are the most versatile; they are useful in any start.

If I don't start with Hunting and don't have a camp resource, I often ignore it, as it's not really very useful. Starting with a scout is nice, but that's only a small benefit, and it can sometimes even be worse than a warrior since scouts are weaker and more vulnerable to animals/barbs.

Mysticism isn't necessary to start with unless you are trying to found an early religion, which isn't very useful anyways.

The Wheel is useful, but it's also something that's not necessary to start with. I'd rather be able to improve a tile but not have access to the resource, than have a road on the tile but not be able to improve it.

Fishing is obviously very helpful in coastal starts w/ seafood, but not so helpful when starting inland, so it's not as versatile as Agriculture/Mining.

Agri and Mining allow you to handle almost any start. You are coded to start with a food resource, which, if starting inland, is very likely to be a grain or livestock. Agriculture allows you to farm the grain, or if you have livestock, leads to AH. Mining allows you to improve any gold/silver/gems you have and leads to BW which is necessary in many forest-heavy starts and an important tech overall.

 

[Fleme]

1) Agriculture/Hunting

2) Agriculture/Hunting or Agriculture/Mining

3) Fishing/Mining

4) Agriculture/Mining

5) Hunting/Mining or Hunting/Agriculture

6) Agriculture/Mining

7) Fishing/Hunting

8) Agriculture/Mining

9) Agriculture/Hunting

10) Agriculture/Mining

11) Agriculture/Mining

12) Agriculture/Hunting

13) Fishing/Hunting

14) Fishing/Hunting

15) Agriculture/Mining

16) Agriculture/Mining

17) Hunting/Mining

18) Agriculture/Mining

19) Agriculture/Mining

20) Fishing/Mining

21) Agriculture/Mining

22) Agriculture/The Wheel

23) Agriculture/Mining

24) Agriculture/Mining

25) Agriculture/Mining

26) Agriculture/Mining

27) Hunting/Mining

28) Fishing/Mining

29) Agriculture/Mining

30) Agriculture/Mining

I voted... Agriculture/Mining

 

[futurehermit]

I like the feedback everybody, but I would appreciate if you have the time to list your two techs for the 30 maps, so I can tally them at the end.

It will be interesting to see the map-tally results in comparison to the general opinion of the poll.

thx

 

[King Pluto]

1. Mining / Agriculture

2. Agriculture / Mining

3. Fishing / Mining

4. Agriculture / Mining

5. Agriculture / Mining

6. Agriculture / Mining

7. Agriculture / Fishing

8. Agriculture / Mining

9. Hunting / Mining

10. Agriculture / Mining

11. Agriculture / Mining

12. Hunting / Agriculture

13. Fishing / Hunting

14. Hunting / Agriculture

15. Agriculture / Mining

16. Agriculture / Mining

17. Hunting / Mining

18. Mining / Agriculture

19. Mining / Agriculture

20. Fishing / Agriculture

21. Mining / Agriculture

22. Agriculture / The Wheel

23. Agriculture / Mining

24. Mining / Agriculture

25. Agriculture / Mining

26. Agriculture / Mining

27. Agriculture / Mining

28. Fishing / Mining

29. Agriculture / Mining

30. Agriculture / Mining

Agriculture almost always lends itself to setting up your initial food resources either with farms or by leading to AH before your Worker pops.

I'd take Mining in most cases where the starting resources aren't great. A lack of resources means you often have a lot of forests to chop, and need a quick BW. Also, there are almost always hills to mine/chop in your BFC as soon as you get that Worker out.

I only would want Fishing if I had more than 1 seafood, or if I had no other immediately improvable resources in my BFC.

I'd take The Wheel in rare cases as a priority. Most of the time I'd rather be able to chop with BW teched than road everywhere right away, so I'd take Mining over TW. However, on starts with lots of riverside that can be cottaged right away and few resources, Ag/Wheel gets cottages going fast.

Hunting, only if I have nothing else, or want to get to AH as quick as possible.

lol Mysticism

 

[UWHabs]

1. Ag/mining
2. ag/mining
3. fishing/mining
4. Ag/wheel
5. Ag/hunting
6. ag/mining
7. Ag/hunting
8. Ag/mining
9. ag/hunting
10. ag/mining
11. ag/mining
12. ag/hunting
13. fishing/ag or fishing/hunting
14. ag/hunting
15. ag/wheel
16. ag/mining
17. hunting/ag
18. ag/fishing
19. ag/mining
20. Fishing/Ah
21. ag/mining
22. ag/hunting or ag/wheel
23. ag/mining
24. ag/mining
25. ag/mining
26. ag/mining
27. ag/hunting
28. ag/fishing
29. ag/hunting
30. ag/mining

Ag to get food online, then fishing if seafood, or hunting/mining/tw to speed up BW/AH/Pottery.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I like the feedback everybody, but I would appreciate if you have the time to list your two techs for the 30 maps, so I can tally them at the end.

It will be interesting to see the map-tally results in comparison to the general opinion of the poll.

thx

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted our opinion of which two were "the best" in general. I thought the maps were just examples of what terrain to expect on an average start.

1) Agriculture Mining
2) Agriculture Mining
3) Fishing Mining
4) Agriculture The Wheel
5) Hunting Mining
6) Agriculture Mining
7) Hunting Mining
8) Agriculture Mining
9) Agriculture Hunting
10) Agriculture Mining
11) Agriculture Mining
12) Agriculture Hunting
13) Hunting Fishing
14) Agriculture Mining
15) Agriculture The Wheel
16) Agriculture Mining
17) Hunting Mining
18) Agriculture Mining
19) Agriculture Mining
20) Hunting Fishing
21) Agriculture Mining
22) Agriculture The Wheel
23) Agriculture Mining (man that's an awful capital)
24) Agriculture The Wheel
25) Agriculture Mining
26) Agriculture Mining
27) Hunting Mining
28) Fishing Mining
29) Agriculture Mining
30) Agriculture The Wheel

 

[NihilZero]

I've seen the occasional start that was better with Hunting than Agriculture, but there's no doubt which the best two techs are. Decent beaker count too.

Fishing ain't too bad, but I hate seafood starts. They are okay commerce wise but slow as hell to get your first settler out.

Mining is a tech that you always need inside the first thirty or so turns. Wheel is the third best and I don't mind having it at all.

 

[azzaman333]

1. agri/mining
2. agri/mining
3. fishing/mining
4. agri/mining
5. hunting/mining
6. agri/mining
7. agri/mining
8. agri/mining
9. hunting/mining
10. agri/mining
11. agri/mining
12. agri/hunting
13. fishing/mining
14. agri/mining
15. agri/mining
16. agri/mining
17. hunting/mining
18. agri/mining
19. agri/mining
20. fishing/mining
21. agri/mining
22. agri/mining
23. agri/wheel
24. agri/mining
25. agri/mining
26. agri/mining
27. agri/mining
28. fishing/mining
29. agri/mining
30. agri/mining

Mining is a tech I would want in every start bar 12 and 23. BW is such an important tech, unlocking Slavery, Copper and Forest Chopping, that it can't really be delayed. Only Animal Husbandry might hold sway to be the first tech researched, and only if there's pigs or cows. Whatever goes with Mining is whatever improves the best food resource I have, generally agri.

 

[Ray Patterson]

So... the consensus seems to be on agriculture and mining, with fishing occasionally lucking out. I think that's accurate, won't bother to check it myself.

One note though. If you are playing at levels below Noble, hunting is epic and in my opinion by far the best, if you're not on a very small (1-2 civs) continent or even island. For low levels hut results are much better, and bonuses against animals are higher. Starting with a scout means popping workers, settlers, etc, in much higher probabilities and faster. Noble makes hunting an ok starting tech, above Noble hunting is bad.

 

[pindicator]

I'd go for Ag / Mining in almost every case. Production to get those first settlers/ workers out is most often the top priority over anything else -- then i'll focus on commerce. I wrote the exceptions instead of listing all 30 just, so here are the maps I would want other than Ag / Mining:

3. Fishing / Mining - coastal start w/o good land food
12. Ag / Hunting - elephants are like grassland hills early on, and with a cow resource you'll get AH faster too.
13. Fishing / Mining - Ugh, no good food tiles here
17. Hunting / Mining due to the deer and sheep
20. Fishing / Mining - not a clam fan, but teching BW & chopping work boats seems the best play here

 

[michaelfraviby]

I think that Mining and the wheel is the techs i would like to start with without seeing the start. Really good beaker count, and you can always tech ag or ah or both depending on resources. And still get a pretty fast bw or pottery, depending on what is needed

 

[Silu]

I had to think a while why my gut reaction for best start techs was instantly "Agri/Wheel" instead of "Agri/Mining". Then I realized it's because only 1 Civ in Civ4 has Agri/Mining as their starting techs, and that Civ sucks, whereas many of the otherwise best Civs have Agri/Wheel.

Anyway, I don't really understand the insane bias towards Agri/Mining. Sure, those might be the two most useful techs, if you couldn't tech anything more. But in many, many of those starts Agri/Wheel might be almost strictly better because 1) the beaker count is higher 2) you have time to tech Mining anyway and also BW fast enough.

I think that Mining and the wheel is the techs i would like to start with without seeing the start. Really good beaker count, and you can always tech ag or ah or both depending on resources. And still get a pretty fast bw or pottery, depending on what is needed

You can't tech AH without either Hunting or Agri, which really sucks if you start without either and only have livestock and no Agri/Hunting resources.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Yeah, starting with Agriculture (or alternatively, Hunting) is great because it lets you research Animal Husbandry in time for your starting worker to improve Cattle/Pigs ASAP.