North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Again, my argument presupposes they are not miraculously well-adapted to all possible environments they encounter and are not wholly self-sufficient, in which case their built-in biological processes will not be sufficient to sustain an advanced civilization (ie: they will need tools and food). If they require those things, they inherently require environmental modification of some capacity to produce. The more they need to adapt, the more modification is required. The more of them, the more similar modification is required. The more developed they become, the yet more modification is required.
Furthermore this is not a matter of behavior. Having humans as a role-model does not matter when determining the attributes of greed or shortsightedness. You will notice that I said life and genes are greedy. Life reproduces itself at the expense of other life. Its most basic function is survival and reproduction; that is in and of itself a greedy ambition. That infects all sentient actions because it's inherent to all life. You stare at the girl with a big chest or arse because your genes select for those traits as attractors for reproduction, not just because you happen to like chests or arses. Similarly with short-sightedness--there is no reason for a life form to generally consider consequences beyond its lifespan, because it'll be dead by the time it matters. Sentience mitigates that only so much, because most long-term trends tend to be obscured by noise and furthermore are difficult to observe by any one given set of individuals. This is why long-term events like soil-leeching or global warming are difficult to perceive.
So unless these hypothetical life forms don't possess instincts (or are possibly suicidal or capable of modifying their neural structure), and have lifespans on the order of several human lifespans, they will share many of the same foibles we do. On top of that, unless they are the ultimate adaptation to their environment, or capable of restructuring their genetics on the fly to adapt to it, they will require environmental manipulation, like tools, and flora and fauna brought under their dominance, with all the environmental footprint those things entail.
Certainly they have to share certain elements, and I do not deny they will modify the environment. What I argue is that it will not necessarily lead to a mass extinction, or something resembling that.
Also, to argue that genes "consider" only things during the lifespan of the organism that carries them -- this is simply not true. In much longer time periods, those organisms which are not adapted for long scale existence (those that have a habit of wiping themselves out by environmental ruination) will die out. There is just as much advantage... actually, far more advantage, in genetic predisposition to sustainability.
Life's functions as we might possibly recognize it are constrained by physical and chemical properties and interactions that place a limit on the ways in which it might function and behave, and thus however limited our pool of data might be we can in fact draw certain inherent conclusions about that life, such as its structure, composition, and natural requirements, and therefrom more mundane considerations; like eating.
Obviously, but as you'll note, life has managed to do all those things in many vastly different ways. Thus, I will suppose that a civilization can do the things necessary for its survival in a number of vastly different ways. Certainly, some base attributes will be the same, but building off of these could lead to any number of conclusions, only a few of which resemble humanity.
If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around to hear it...
If it isn't recognizable to humanity, and is thus undetectable, it for all intents and purposes does not exist as far as we are concerned
I did not say undetectable, merely unrecognizable. We can detect plenty of things and observe the changes that they perform on the environment around us without wholly understanding why or how they're happening.