While We Wait: Part 4

I'd say that's completely fallacious actually. Stats and map together just tell you the final result, not what actually happened to get there. Given the method of arrival is non-mechanical, even in the most mathematically assisted examples, you cannot realistically understand the game without the write-up. Similarly, with just a write-up and no stats or map, visualizing relative capabilities or positions becomes virtually impossible and murky. Both components are necessary to understand a situation in full.

Ah, but that is (or at least is related to) my point:
-In a pure game, then (1)the method of arrival is mechanical and (2)only the current situation should be important--the history shouldn't matter.
-In a story, the writer should just come up with their own assessment of the situation.

I'm discussing the extremes, and thus my point in the first paragraph is not particularly useful.

The second one I'm also uneasy with but less willing to bother with now. At any rate, in saying both these "obvious" things, you have totally avoided the questions being asked. :p
So why are you uneasy with it? Because that's the paragraph I think actually answers the question:

Question said:
If the Story-Game experience is seen as co-existent in NESing, as stated in the above, then what are methods for optimizing both aspects (factual content and emotional context) in an update? If the player's processing of information is relative, how do you cater to different types of audience effectively at the same time?
Answer said:
[...]you can dissociate the game and the story within the update.


My goal in an update is generally twofold--(1) to tell a good, or at least a dramatic story, based on player input and (2) to evolve the game in such a manner that interesting choices are presented to the players. I submit that while (1) can be of assistance in (2), there's no reason that (1) and (2) have to be related.
 
I'm discussing the extremes, and thus my point in the first paragraph is not particularly useful.
This says better what I was sort of trying to say--no actual NES is purely mechanical or purely fluid.

So why are you uneasy with it?
I submit that while (1) can be of assistance in (2), there's no reason that (1) and (2) have to be related.
Because it's rather a bankrupt premise. Just because any number of explanations is possible for describing our universe (eg: "Ride of the Valkyries Rockin' Unicorn Primate Oppression Brigade" or "Causal Dynamic Triangulations") doesn't really mean that any explanation should suffice. The two should be linked, particularly as no extreme examples exist, and we presumably operate in a simulation of a causal universe in which there are causes which lead to effects. When dealing with geopolitics and sociology, all effects with no causes is just a bad idea.

It also says terribly little as a statement about how both aspects can be improved in presentation, which is the point of the question. Just saying they can be disassociated doesn't seem to lead to any kind of betterment at all, that I can see. To give an analogy: when asking how to improve the mixing of two fluids, saying that they can be separated isn't of much utility.
 
It was good, provided that it isn’t for publication ;)

It lost the flow here and there and was a tad clunky in construction; otherwise the problems were minimal, simple put a large portion of the native English speaking population would be hard pressed to write something as coherent.

Everyone needs proofreaders ;)
 
It was good, provided that it isn’t for publication

It was for my IB extended essay. My teacher predicted me a C, the examiner gave me an A.
It lost the flow and was a tad clunky in construction; otherwise the problems were minimal, simple put a large portion of the native English speaking population would be hard pressed to write something as coherent.

Ah yes I felt that as well. A lot of my ideas and sentences didn't really flow well. I blame the IB requirements. They wanted direct quotations. I hate direct quotations, I feel it interrupts things. But they were like no its preferable so you can show the examiner that you haven't plagiarized or some nonsense like that.

There was also a word limit I had to work under. It was quite annoying.
 
Regarding the game/story debate...

I'm here for the stories, primarily. Even if I don't write stories, I NES to experience the narrative of my nation, and those of other NESers. However, these stories are typically part of a structure which is a sandbox game in structure- quite similar to a text and picture-based form of Civilization. If it were simply that game, I would have little interest. However, in playing it, I create a narrative in my mind which keeps me engaged.

Games are a vehicle of NESing, but the critical feature is the stories, written or imagined.
 
I don’t know about IB standards, but if it’s forcing you to stilt your sentences and its encouraging you to embed quotes like that I would politely forget that part of it ;). Congratulations on the mark, nothing better than a nice surprise when the results come in. How exactly using quotes shows the examiner you haven’t plagiarized is beyond us mere mortals, you need to take a trip into the rarefied world of teaching…

School always annoyed me, it’s not at all conducive to free thinking, heck it destroys your thought processes by encouraging blind belief (that was my experience). You can see the results in many graduates, they can’t think, they read the recommended material and that’s it, they suss out what the lecturer wants and that’s it. They never have a nice meander through masses of paperwork to find a diamond; you end up with half graduates. Lawyers who worked like that through high school and university are easy to pick out throw them a nice legal curve ball and they drop it, fumble it, spend two weeks hiding in their offices, and end up giving you some of the most ugly legislative surgery ever ;).

I hate word limits, mind you I can understand the reasoning behind them, some people love to write… rubbish.
 
I don’t know about IB standards, but if it’s forcing you to stilt your sentences and its encouraging you to embed quotes like that I would politely forget that part of it

International Baccalaureate. A device of evil and torture and Satanic sado-masochistic sex rituals.

Anyway its over and I've graduated so I never need to do that sort of stupid .. .. .. .. . again. The teacher who was supposed to proofread my essay gave it a glance, told me he didn't know anything at all about the subject so he couldn't help me.

Yes school sucks. Hopefully uni will be somewhat better. It can't possibly get worse can it?
 
I'm starting my uni in about a month, so I'll let you know silver what it is like.

What the hell do you even do in that IB? :p
 
I've still got 1 more year of IB to go...

The worst is yet to come.

I'm starting my uni in about a month, so I'll let you know silver what it is like.

So am I.

What the hell do you even do in that IB?

The program consists of forcing the unsuspecting teenagers to partake in Satanic rituals known as Internal Assessments and Extended Essays in which they are violated with pitchforks and inseminated with Blue Whale ejaculate (straight from the tap baby!) It also contains so called "Oral commentaries" and "Oral presentations" which involve performing oral sex upon the teacher non-stop for half an hour without taking a breath. An alternate oral assignment exists in which the student delivers an oratory report on a subject according to rigorous IB standards, but a majority of students find oral sex to be less traumatizing and substantially easier to recuperate from. It is said that the only way to definitively complete such rituals with a high mark is to sell your little brother or sister's body to the Devil or to Frank Entis (a level 59 mage exiled from Jewtopia after he was caught molesting a young Adolf Hitler; later moved to Canada to live with his own kind.) Finally, after living off intravenous caffeine injections for years, the students are subjected to tortures known as the Final Exams, which they do not feel ready for due to several years' insomnia (due to the caffeine). The Italian writer Dante has called IB the 29th circle of hell. The IB dropout and purveyor of already completed homework, Jeremy Feldman, however, preferred to call IB merely the 10th level of hell. Fear not students who ignored inferno during your sophomore year at Desert Mountain High School, this is still the maximum level. However, IB coordinators chose to reject this notion as inappropriate for a public institution, and therefore T-Shirts were never made. This is not to say that they were never attempted, merely that the results were unsatisfactory.

Students who undergo IB experience a colorful spectrum of interesting (yet understandable) urges. The calm and reserved begin to acquire incredibly strong desires to intercept and burn all IB exam papers; the strong may wish to annihilate all IBO regional offices with a massive array of explosives; the truly violent convince religious fanatics to commit terrorist acts against all IB institutions (What? Did you honestly think that September 11th was about a couple of American bases in Saudi Arabia? What better base for IBO operations than the World Trade Center?)

Everything a student does for IB is confiscated, and The Organization receives all credit for your arduous work (I guess the Honor Code doesn't apply to aspiring authoritarian regimes.) If a student makes a discovery when completing the extended essay, write a computer system for a computing project, or do anything that could potentially change his/her life for the better, s/he can throw such aspirations out the window (or up the ass) as soon as s/he hands it in to The Organization. In short, when a student hands the research in, the copyrights get transferred to IB. They, not the hard-working student, now own the fruits of the student's labor. The irony is that the student is the one who pays school fees, examination fees and the other fees that IB needs to keep their minions content. Also, honor code. Seriously, what the . .. .. .. . ever happened to intellectual property rights?

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/IB
 
It can get worse I can assure you... much worse... do everything extra you can get your hands on it pays dividends later, research through insane amounts of paperwork (NESing is actually good practice for that :p) and be broad with your knowledge, nothing worse than going to employ someone who can is rather useless except at X of course the flip side is there are people walking around with such broad knowledge they are useless at most everything...

EDIT: @Silver LMAO! Blue whales aye? I dont want to know how one would go about getting it...
 
Regarding the game/story debate...
So rather than addressing the front-end of the argument, which has become a well-trodden path by now, why don't you add to the actual meat of the discussion? I have a feeling you would have a unique perspective on this, given LINES II.

If the Story-Game experience is seen as co-existent in NESing, as stated in the above, then what are methods for optimizing both aspects (factual content and emotional context) in an update? If the player's processing of information is relative, how do you cater to different types of audience effectively at the same time?
Tried and true. However, how does one limit the effect to prevent there from being an "arms race" of stories on any given turn? Quality is subjective, and even if it is taken into account, those with more free time continue to have a decided edge. Does one use diminishing returns? Or something else?

Also, though that functions as a possible solution for the player portion of the equation, what of updates themselves? If a potential equilibrium between the two aspects exists, should all moderators move to adopt it? And what would it be to begin with? Something like Birdjaguar's style in the first BirdNES? Or something else entirely?
 
I'm not sure where I stand on the story/game debate, besides recognizing the inherent need for a rich balance. But, at least in the NES2 series, I might note that the decline of the 'story bonus' after ITNES/NES2 V was gradually met with a slower but noticeable decline in actual stories, and a significant shift of content to a more factual nature.

Whether or not this was popular is a moot point, since das-moderated NESes are always popular regardless of nuances in moderator style.
 
I'm not sure where I stand on the story/game debate,
I'm going to repeat that we've rather moved on in the discussion, and keep it at that so that I don't say something untoward.
 
Very well then, I have no comment on how to correctly optimize the pseudo-mystical coexistent nature of the story-game union, except by updates that are regularly delivered, equally split emotional and rational content, and fairly consider the balance of story and order quantity and quality that are encouraged within a well-developed ruleset.

In sum, as detailed an update, statistically and aesthetically, as possible, without sacrificing consistency.
 
A possible solution is to have the update consist of a more story-like narrative(s), ala Birdjaguar or maybe Daftpanzer, and a concise factual summary. The former can be useful for relating various details and enhancing the atmosphere (flavour, fluff, whatever) of the game, whereas the latter will provide the essential game data.
 
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