jojoweb
Chimpa-Z
This mod seems to be very interesting. Can you share your modified SDK files ?
White Lies.Black Ops
- Thread starter ooggbboo
- Start date
Let me know if you can track down ctd causes; I've played two full games and never seen it. As for the spawn points, they come from two events: visiting a goody hut (which turns into an indigenous community) and the fund & train insurgents Black Op. Pillaging them is deliberate, though - it raises native discontent when you do. As with Internal Security options, I like the trade-off between short-term gains (pillage money + you don't have to work the plots to avoid unhappiness) and long-term trouble (raises terrorism). Still, as you've mentioned, I'm sure some balancing is necessary.
BobTheTerrible
Just Another Bob
Can anyone explain how the mod actually works? It seems cool but I'm running other mods at the moment.
Have you accessed the intelligence screen? Hold down the alt key and left click on the name of a civ in the bottom right corner of the main screen (if you hover the mouse over the civ name, the help info in the bottom right tells you how to do it); I think you may have missed the bulk of the mod. Go to the black ops sub screen and then select "support faction" and click the yellow "inactive" button. The "inactive" bottom will go from yellow to red and say "active". You can pause a blackop at any time by hitting that button. Then, a % of the espionage points you gain against a civ each turn (adjust the % on the blackop screen itself) with an active blackop (hovering the mouse over a civ name on the main screen will indicate if you have an active op) will be applied towards the blackop. You can see the progress bar move (the cost of the op depends on a variety of factors). Once it fills, the op goes off and it resets to 0 and "inactive." I think the basics are in the "read me" file. When the "support faction" black op goes off, an indigenous camp is made in the target civ's territory and filled with barbarians. It also raises native anger and, if terrorists are present, terrorist aggressiveness. I like to use it right before I declare war on a civ (use it before because blackops are more expensive when you are at war with a civ). It's a mixed bag later in the game because, once you have the "Education" tech, native communities go from liabilities to assets as workable tiles.
Try it out.
Try it out.
BobTheTerrible
Just Another Bob
I played it for an hour or so until I got a CTD. I was pretty impressed, there was a lot of cool stuff in there. One suggestion I would make immediately is to remove worldwide notifications when nations do bad things to natives and put that in the intelligence screen, so instead of seeing "The English have been stealing food from the natives, with government support," you'd access the English intelligence screen and it would say "The English have treated their natives horribly" or "the English have been largely neutral to the native populations in their land." The notifications that we currently get are a bit annoying. It also seemed that the AI would take advantage of the native populations a lot of the time, which meant eventually terrorist organizations would be established in most civs. Perhaps the AI can adopt either an "exploit natives," "occasionally exploit natives" or a "be nice to natives" behavior, to vary which civs will provoke terrorists?
Also, if a city is razed, perhaps a native population should be placed there (which would be sympathetic to the original civ if it fell back into the original civ's culture)?
Also, a lot of the stuff in the Black Ops screen seems like it should become available with a technology rather than from the start of the game. It just seems weird training barbarian Warrior insurgents in 2000 BC (which is what I did, hehe).
Instead of making the Terrorists show up as barbarians, perhaps you can make a "Terrorist" minor civ (meaning it's at war with all players) so that we know which units are terrorists as opposed to barbarians, and so there aren't the barbarian-fighting bonuses applied to the Terrorists? I guess that would be kinda weird if they started taking a lot of cities and forming a Terrorist Empire, but it's a thought.
Goody huts within a certain amount of plots from a capital city might want to turn into hamlets instead of native populations, representing the fact that they likely share the same culture as would be willing to help form an empire with the civilization.
Plots with native populations should have a chance of forming into a barbarian city (which would remove the native population).
Perhaps a mechanic to keep adding goody huts during the game similar to the way the game spawns barbarian cities? And a mechanic for native populations to disperse on their own? Maybe even a mechanic for "lost cities" to be discovered on the plots of native populations which had been dispersed years and years ago (giving a research bonus?)?
Perhaps allowing diseases to be started in unhealthy cities naturally (may be beyond the scope of this mod)
Sorry for spewing out suggestions but I like this mod and I think it has a lot of potential. I think if you can iron out the CTDs and be more informative in the original post on how the mechanics work, a lot of people would be interested in this mod.
Also, if a city is razed, perhaps a native population should be placed there (which would be sympathetic to the original civ if it fell back into the original civ's culture)?
Also, a lot of the stuff in the Black Ops screen seems like it should become available with a technology rather than from the start of the game. It just seems weird training barbarian Warrior insurgents in 2000 BC (which is what I did, hehe).
Instead of making the Terrorists show up as barbarians, perhaps you can make a "Terrorist" minor civ (meaning it's at war with all players) so that we know which units are terrorists as opposed to barbarians, and so there aren't the barbarian-fighting bonuses applied to the Terrorists? I guess that would be kinda weird if they started taking a lot of cities and forming a Terrorist Empire, but it's a thought.
Goody huts within a certain amount of plots from a capital city might want to turn into hamlets instead of native populations, representing the fact that they likely share the same culture as would be willing to help form an empire with the civilization.
Plots with native populations should have a chance of forming into a barbarian city (which would remove the native population).
Perhaps a mechanic to keep adding goody huts during the game similar to the way the game spawns barbarian cities? And a mechanic for native populations to disperse on their own? Maybe even a mechanic for "lost cities" to be discovered on the plots of native populations which had been dispersed years and years ago (giving a research bonus?)?
Perhaps allowing diseases to be started in unhealthy cities naturally (may be beyond the scope of this mod)
Sorry for spewing out suggestions but I like this mod and I think it has a lot of potential. I think if you can iron out the CTDs and be more informative in the original post on how the mechanics work, a lot of people would be interested in this mod.
Good suggestions; thanks for the feedback. I agree with the notices; they were originally added to test the AI and can get out of hand. Native exploitation is based on individual leader qualities but I might need to modify the formula since some aggressive Civs are very exploitative. I'm going to make some additions - including a couple of things that should be pretty cool if they work out as planned - clean things up and re-release the mod (releasing an initial version that nobody could play didn't help). Thoughts on new black ops and shadow diplomacy (which I think of as back-channel/proxy diplomacy) options are always welcome.
The Capo
godless Heathen
Nice to hear its working, I was seriously intersted in adding this to my mod when I do the expanded version. I haven't had an opportunity to play it just yet (because I'm working on a bunch of modular civs for my mod) but it sounds really cool. From what I can tell though it seems the terrorist thing is pretty prevalent. Are the terrorists religiously motivated or culturally motivated?
If they are both perhaps you could make the religiously motivated terrorism start with the advent of divine right or theology. And the culturally motivated terrorism start with nationalism. By that I mean those features begin when someone discovers those technologies. I would definitely do something to make it more AI-compatible as well.
But it sounds great, I'll give you more feedback when I play it.
If they are both perhaps you could make the religiously motivated terrorism start with the advent of divine right or theology. And the culturally motivated terrorism start with nationalism. By that I mean those features begin when someone discovers those technologies. I would definitely do something to make it more AI-compatible as well.
But it sounds great, I'll give you more feedback when I play it.
BobTheTerrible
Just Another Bob
One more suggestion I have is to make civs lower on the scoreboard in the later game more likely to become terrorist states or harbor the terrorists. It makes sense that civs lower on the scoreboard might try anything to get ahead, and it also would give some meaning to these civ's existences.
Also, perhaps there should be more benefits for being nice to the natives, like more happiness in cities or a special new resource (handmade cloths, etc). As it is (and I may be wrong) it doesn't seem like there is a lot to gain from being nice to them except the absence of terrorist groups founded.
Also, perhaps there should be more benefits for being nice to the natives, like more happiness in cities or a special new resource (handmade cloths, etc). As it is (and I may be wrong) it doesn't seem like there is a lot to gain from being nice to them except the absence of terrorist groups founded.
Actually, it's just as you say; the AI's decision to become a terrorist state is determined by a civ's percentile ranking in a composite score I created, and its deviation from the mean performance of other civs. Unfortunately, I've noticed that in most games the distribution of scores isn't normal (for those with some statistics exposure); there are a couple of dominant civs and the rest tail off into mediocre hopelessness. I'm working on reworking the AI to encourage late game terrorist state for desperate civs.
As for benefits of being nice, I had the same thought. I think that I'm going to go the event/quest route, but we'll see.
As for benefits of being nice, I had the same thought. I think that I'm going to go the event/quest route, but we'll see.
I have not really much time to play, but it sounds interessting, so my question: Could somebody at an advanced savegame, where i can see the new features?
@ooggbboo: You should ad some screenshots to your first post.
@ooggbboo: You should ad some screenshots to your first post.
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
Hey there
So I tried your mod today, easy to install you place it in your mod folder click that run button and that's it. I had no issues there.
Going to give you feedback of how I played the game.
So I started an advance start in the modern era ( I know easy, but I rather see biological terrorism than gunpowder terrorism). Small tectonics earth map. I started in Asia and took Australia, when I went to try and kill my neighbor the french I learned of a new option in this game,( alt click) black ops and the political thing. Overall I loved the whole thing.
Anyhow I was the only terrorist state through out the game and I had a angry native score of 5000 which I felt proud of. Really American of me.... I kid. The barbarians(natives or whatnot) where easy to kill however became VERY annoying, even at a angry score of 100.
I had enough of them, so I put a unit on every empty tile in my empire, naturally I was #1 in power and #1 in soldering there after NIHAHAHABUAHAHAH. Anyhow this solved the problem of barbarians popping up. I had conquered the French north of me and next where the persians who lacked ability to make a navy.
It was a full out nuclear war and once my units where off the tiles in the north barbarians arise after war calmed down. Not really a problem though I had two cities up there and they where a nuclear wasteland so the barbs did not bother me much. I had bigger worries.
Okay so I ended up razing 4 of the Persian cities and won the war....I stopped playing after I started looking like I was going to win (really don't feel like placing a unit on every tile again and cleaning fall out haha
)
*The game played well to me I had no problems but these.
I could not tell the difference between indigenous and terrorists... maybe they where one in the same? I... don't know. Not a big issue.
I wish I could have more control of terrorists, playing the game I expected to make terrorist units that could carry maybe nukes, anthrax, bombs, incite riots? Again not a big problem since terrorists would nuke stuff all the time anyway
Speaking of nukes, maybe I am a noob but I launched around.... 20 ICBM's against Cyrus(or more)
All of them where shot down...bad luck I guess. I launched around 70 tactical nukes throughout my game and 1 out of 10 times did it get shot down. SO usually when I do nuclear warfare atleast 1 ICBM goes through and tactical nukes got shot down fairly often at a better rate than here. Now maybe I got lucky or, something with nukes is messed? Suggest you check that bit out.
Other than that GREAT mod, I had fun.... but I did not like the fact that everyone hates the terrorist country with a passion and no one wants to join my empire of dooom
.
I wrote quite a bit, sorry heh. good mod.
So I tried your mod today, easy to install you place it in your mod folder click that run button and that's it. I had no issues there.
Going to give you feedback of how I played the game.
So I started an advance start in the modern era ( I know easy, but I rather see biological terrorism than gunpowder terrorism). Small tectonics earth map. I started in Asia and took Australia, when I went to try and kill my neighbor the french I learned of a new option in this game,( alt click) black ops and the political thing. Overall I loved the whole thing.
Anyhow I was the only terrorist state through out the game and I had a angry native score of 5000 which I felt proud of. Really American of me.... I kid. The barbarians(natives or whatnot) where easy to kill however became VERY annoying, even at a angry score of 100.
I had enough of them, so I put a unit on every empty tile in my empire, naturally I was #1 in power and #1 in soldering there after NIHAHAHABUAHAHAH. Anyhow this solved the problem of barbarians popping up. I had conquered the French north of me and next where the persians who lacked ability to make a navy.
It was a full out nuclear war and once my units where off the tiles in the north barbarians arise after war calmed down. Not really a problem though I had two cities up there and they where a nuclear wasteland so the barbs did not bother me much. I had bigger worries.
Okay so I ended up razing 4 of the Persian cities and won the war....I stopped playing after I started looking like I was going to win (really don't feel like placing a unit on every tile again and cleaning fall out haha
) *The game played well to me I had no problems but these.
I could not tell the difference between indigenous and terrorists... maybe they where one in the same? I... don't know. Not a big issue.
I wish I could have more control of terrorists, playing the game I expected to make terrorist units that could carry maybe nukes, anthrax, bombs, incite riots? Again not a big problem since terrorists would nuke stuff all the time anyway
Speaking of nukes, maybe I am a noob but I launched around.... 20 ICBM's against Cyrus(or more)
All of them where shot down...bad luck I guess. I launched around 70 tactical nukes throughout my game and 1 out of 10 times did it get shot down. SO usually when I do nuclear warfare atleast 1 ICBM goes through and tactical nukes got shot down fairly often at a better rate than here. Now maybe I got lucky or, something with nukes is messed? Suggest you check that bit out.
Other than that GREAT mod, I had fun.... but I did not like the fact that everyone hates the terrorist country with a passion and no one wants to join my empire of dooom
. I wrote quite a bit, sorry heh. good mod.
